CUBA again!

[naesco]

Hopefully there are a few SNL fans here, and that quote is taken in the tongue-in-cheek context it was intended.

The fact of the matter, however, is that two makeshift rafts have washed up on our local (E. central FL) beaches in as many weeks. These are historically Cuban refugees, though admittedly sometimes Haitiian, and the sad part is that the seas have been extremely rough. The likelyhood is that these folks never made it to US soil and drowned.

If things are so great in Castros Cuba, why is there such a desire to leave and venture with such high risk to the United Stated? I would rule out Disney World.

Of course, Dan Aykroyd is a Canadian.
Things are not great in Cuba. The economy is suffering. They leave for the same reason Mexicans cross the border by the thousands to the US and are now entering Canada as well: they are economic refugees. They yearn for the wealth our countries have to offer.

Subsequent to my earlier post I found out that the fish are not caught with drugs.

The reefs in Cuba are abundant with black coral which is on CITIES.

If I obtained a CITIES permit to import them to Canada for the purpose of aqua culture, do you think selling frags to US hobbyists/industry would be illegal as the wild colony would not be shipped only frags?

In other words do you know if 'certified' aqua-cultured coral requires a permit from Canada to the US?

Thanks
Wayne Ryan

 

[brandonberry]

Are you talking about importing Black Coral? That is non-photosynthetic. It would likely be extremely hard to keep alive, much less grow, and the vast majority of hobbiests would not want it since they couldn't keep it alive.

Also, do you really think you could make a profit trying to aquaculture corals in Canada. From what I have heard, coral farms in Florida barely make it and they have the climate and light working to their advantage.

 

[naesco]

Are you talking about importing Black Coral? That is non-photosynthetic. It would likely be extremely hard to keep alive, much less grow, and the vast majority of hobbiests would not want it since they couldn't keep it alive.

Also, do you really think you could make a profit trying to aquaculture corals in Canada. From what I have heard, coral farms in Florida barely make it and they have the climate and light working to their advantage.

Thanks for your comments.
I'll have to do some research as to what sucess, if any, hobbyists or experts have had.
Are you aware of anyone who has had sucess?
Wayne Ryan

 

[treeman]

What does history have to do with the fact that most of the Cuban people (the ones that are not getting the extra benefits of turning their friends in) hate Castro and would risk drowning to get away from him. I have about...oh, say a couple hundred Cuban friends down here that will set you straight.

Why don't you do your research before you ask the question here....trolling perhaps 8O

 

[Anonymous]

Why do you insists on miss spelling the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of wild marine fuana and flora otherwise known as CITES?

Black coral requires massive feedings Wayne, it's very well known by most pro's and hobbyists alike. Many public aquariums used to (and may still) feed them cow blood and something else IIRC.

WIth the advent of many new types of feeds on the market, I suspect they may not be as hard to keep as they used to.

 

[naesco]

Gresham thanks for the correction.
It was a bad idea. I would not want to be part of making more impossible to keep coral available to industry and hobbyists.

Wayne Ryan

 

[naesco]

What does history have to do with the fact that most of the Cuban people (the ones that are not getting the extra benefits of turning their friends in) hate Castro and would risk drowning to get away from him. I have about...oh, say a couple hundred Cuban friends down here that will set you straight.

Why don't you do your research before you ask the question here....trolling perhaps 8O

History is everything. The American Government invaded Cuba after they couldn't buy it from Spain. Since than they 'installed' dictator after dictator and eventually ending up owning most of the island and economy. Mr. Fidel Castro gave the country back to its people and the only reason Cuba turned towards the Soviet Union was the American government turned it back on Cuba. Cuban Americans yearn for the day when they can return to the way it was. That is never going to happen.

Yes, you are right a little research on black coral on my part would have been better but you had nothing to add on the subject other than your right wing babble.

Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

And how prey tell does this have ANYTHING to do with IBTH or this REEF HOBBYIST FORUM WEBSITE. Take your political sh.. elsewhere, like the lounge.

 

[JennM]

Wayne needs to take a little swim in the sump I think they'd probably eat him alive there.. muhahaha!

Does anybody besides me see the incredible irony in Wayne thinking about importing black corals when he was so freaking gung-ho to create a USL? (Unsuitable Species List)??

I nearly spit my coffee all over the monitor when I read that.

Of course if Wayne had spent any time in the industry, he'd know what black coral is... and how hard to keep it is... dare I say, "unsuitable" (by his own definition!)

Better REEEEEEFORM your thinking there, Wayne-o!

Jenn

 

[naesco]

Gresham thanks for the correction.
It was a bad idea. I would not want to be part of making more impossible to keep coral available to industry and hobbyists.

Wayne Ryan

Jenn I guess you missed this post, eh!
Wayne Ryan

 

[JennM]

No I didn't miss that - I saw it, but you posted that *after* you were all excited about black corals - clearly without any iota of realization until you were told, that these are unsuitable.

One would think you'd have known this *prior* to getting all revved about it, because then you'd never have posted about it in the first place.

Good thing Gresh was on the ball, eh? You might have brought in a pile of "unsuitable" species and got flamed for having done so.

I think you owe Gresh one

How 'bout them Sens, eh?

Jenn

 

[clarionreef]

Black corals not a coral of course...
Its a yellow polyped gorgonion and in good habitat an extremely common one at that.
The whole "ohhh-ahhh" factor about black coral is from the very old ones that grow thick bases and serve as jewelry. This sacrifice of old, old specimens is far mor irresponsible then the keeping and culturing of some small ones. Small ones may blanket the bottom in some places and grow as abundantly as there are holdfasts for them to connect to.

In Baja , Mexico I use to collect small purple linckia starfishes in big fields of them. One year I returned to show them off to one of the biologists making a name off of our enterprise and they were all dead. Parasitized by an invasion of red zoanthids.
Then, there were fields of red zoanthids!
No doubt, the cold water/warm water cycles that come and go in the Sea of Cortez will give rise to them again.
In critical habitat there were an average of 10 small black coral trees per square meter of rock-rubble bottom @ the 75 foot zone.
Rare in our minds, rare in downtown anywhere USA....but pretty common in nature.
Their real enemy was the warm water of the Nino years.
I had a permit for several years and used to sell them to Scripps Aquarium in La Jolla . They lived, thrived and grew for years and were kept at 70 degrees and fed yeast mixed w/ blood.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

70 degrees and fed a lot sure doesn't make them suitable for the tropical aquarium trade and it's simply not responasiable to suggest otherwise.

And Steve, Mexico is just one spot on the planet where these exist. Sure, maybe not in trouble there, but what about elsewhere?

Did you know there isn't just one black coral? Did you factor that into your post?

 

[clarionreef]

70 degrees and fed a lot sure doesn't make them suitable for the tropical aquarium trade and it's simply not responasiable to suggest otherwise.

Huh? Hard corals are unsuitable without the talent to keep them as well.
Like so many other species that are now kept, you and many who read this could maintain and multiply "black coral" if you wanted to. They are in fact easier to maintain then many that you all keep now!
But........the lower temperature limit makes them undesired as few reefers want to keep a cold tank. This isn't an ethical or environmental concern....its a convenience issue.

And Steve, Mexico is just one spot on the planet where these exist. Sure, maybe not in trouble there, but what about elsewhere?
Did you know there isn't just one black coral? Did you factor that into your post?

Theres like 18 species of this gorgonion and all the jewelry quality ones take a long time to grow to jewelry quality ie. 15-20 years!
The baby yellow bushes are in fact far far commoner then the old ones hunted to depletion by the jewelry trade. The depths protect this gorgonion as it may live to 400 feet or more.
In Baja Mexico it starts at 60' in the upper gulf, 75 in the central and 120 in the La Paz area.
In Costa Rica I have seen walls covered with them in 90 feet and in the Philippines 120 feet.
In Hawaii it occurs deep and lures divers to the 200 foot zone[ killing a few dozen in its history].
Although it exists "circum-tropically" [ is that a word?] its biology demands cooler water and that accounts for the great depths in the tropics and shallower ones in the sub-tropics.
The greater depths keep it out of sight and mind and that fosters the perception of scarcity. No one hunts for the one foot yearling bushlets of black coral and that may lead one to think that the species is not abundant . It is in fact abundant in many countries and this very abundance gives us the long nose hawk which is collected from Egypt, the Indian Ocean, S.E.Asia, Polynesia, Costa Rica etc.

Long nose hawks are habitat dependant on medium and older black coral bushes the world over.
The real issue of concern should be the giant, old "trees" taken by the jewelry trade. Next to that, the take of a few small ones to research with, display, frag and multiply in a cool tank would be a small concern .
Of course, like all marine animals, it should be kept according to its care requirements, [ or left alone] but that goes without saying here doesn't it?
Steve