A
Sea Shepards blasts aquarium trade
- Thread starter clarionreef
- Start date
clarionreef
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- San Francisco
People,
If you're having a slow day at work...google up the Snorkle Bob Foundation....it makes for some hilarious reading....
Some exceprts below!
..." Moreover, we have Sylvia Spalding, Communications Coordinator
for the Marine Aquarium Council, conceding: “We anticipated what is
happening with the clownfish in the pet shops. We tried to contact Disney, so maybe they could put a message at the beginning of the movie, like they’
re going to do with 102 Dalmatians (Oy.), but we couldn’t get through.”
“You mean Disney is an impervious echo chamber of recorded
messages on machines that talk to each other but never lead you to a human,
till the line goes dead?” I asked.
“Yes. It was like that. We tried and tried.”
Back with Sylvia Spalding at the Marine Aquarium Council, we
move to Phase II of the Clownfish Calamity. The Marine Aquarium Council is
headquartered, by the way, in Honolulu. Nemo effectively portrayed reef
fish collection as nasty, perhaps evil. Naturally, the MAC wanted to dilute that message, because it largely exists to protect what is known as the “Marine ornamental industry.” Its boldest voice takes strident issue with reef fish harvesting by cyanide or blasting caps, both of which destroy the reef. The
MAC supports, endorses and encourages “proper” collecting techniques for
(oh, brother; not again) sustainable harvests of the reefs.
I presented Sylvia Spalding with a more sustainable point of
view, that reef fish are individuals residing in communities with social
order and susceptibility to terrorist attack. She said, “You’re obviously
set in your ideas, and there’s nothing I can say to change them.”
Bad-behavior apologists often resort to cliché. I informed Ms.
Sylvia, though I suspect she knew, that our (the Snorkel Bob Foundation’s) recent inquiries into formation of turtle preserves at Kiholo Bay on the Big Island as well as other places, met with initial waves of resistance from the tropical-fish-collection lobby. These slurpgunners have attired themselves as politically correct, so they can clear the reefs in sustainable waves with minimal kill.
Sylvia Spalding said that 98% of all marine fish sold in pet
stores are caught wild on reefs, leaving 2% coming from breeders. I assured her that her efforts against cyanide and dynamite were a good thing, kindof like carpool lanes at rush hour. Do they make life nice? Well, no, but a tad more tolerable. I didn’t tell Sylvia that the Marine Aquarium Council’s evolution into a front group for the slurpgun collectors was a bad thing,
but she sensed my dark thoughts on that subject.
Certified? Maybe not, but I’m surely certifiable.'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor Sylvia....and
..."a front group for the slurpgun collectors ??"...did he really say that?
rofl....catching a yellow tang w/ a slurp gun would be an amazing thing to see....[no one uses slurp guns]
If you're having a slow day at work...google up the Snorkle Bob Foundation....it makes for some hilarious reading....
Some exceprts below!
..." Moreover, we have Sylvia Spalding, Communications Coordinator
for the Marine Aquarium Council, conceding: “We anticipated what is
happening with the clownfish in the pet shops. We tried to contact Disney, so maybe they could put a message at the beginning of the movie, like they’
re going to do with 102 Dalmatians (Oy.), but we couldn’t get through.”
“You mean Disney is an impervious echo chamber of recorded
messages on machines that talk to each other but never lead you to a human,
till the line goes dead?” I asked.
“Yes. It was like that. We tried and tried.”
Back with Sylvia Spalding at the Marine Aquarium Council, we
move to Phase II of the Clownfish Calamity. The Marine Aquarium Council is
headquartered, by the way, in Honolulu. Nemo effectively portrayed reef
fish collection as nasty, perhaps evil. Naturally, the MAC wanted to dilute that message, because it largely exists to protect what is known as the “Marine ornamental industry.” Its boldest voice takes strident issue with reef fish harvesting by cyanide or blasting caps, both of which destroy the reef. The
MAC supports, endorses and encourages “proper” collecting techniques for
(oh, brother; not again) sustainable harvests of the reefs.
I presented Sylvia Spalding with a more sustainable point of
view, that reef fish are individuals residing in communities with social
order and susceptibility to terrorist attack. She said, “You’re obviously
set in your ideas, and there’s nothing I can say to change them.”
Bad-behavior apologists often resort to cliché. I informed Ms.
Sylvia, though I suspect she knew, that our (the Snorkel Bob Foundation’s) recent inquiries into formation of turtle preserves at Kiholo Bay on the Big Island as well as other places, met with initial waves of resistance from the tropical-fish-collection lobby. These slurpgunners have attired themselves as politically correct, so they can clear the reefs in sustainable waves with minimal kill.
Sylvia Spalding said that 98% of all marine fish sold in pet
stores are caught wild on reefs, leaving 2% coming from breeders. I assured her that her efforts against cyanide and dynamite were a good thing, kindof like carpool lanes at rush hour. Do they make life nice? Well, no, but a tad more tolerable. I didn’t tell Sylvia that the Marine Aquarium Council’s evolution into a front group for the slurpgun collectors was a bad thing,
but she sensed my dark thoughts on that subject.
Certified? Maybe not, but I’m surely certifiable.'
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor Sylvia....and
..."a front group for the slurpgun collectors ??"...did he really say that?
rofl....catching a yellow tang w/ a slurp gun would be an amazing thing to see....[no one uses slurp guns]
Gresham you are cracking me up! That is an awesome quote.
Does he know anything about the trade in Marine Ornamentals? Anything?
You know what would be funny? Get Air-Mic and a few others to quote a freight rate on that number of fish FOB Kiribati and Majuro into HNL and see what happens.
When I read his viewpoint I laughed so hard that my stomach hurt and I had tears rolling down my face. No big deal though, just another individual with absolutely no involvement in the trade trying to critique it.
It does, however, make for great reading and outstanding humor. Thanks so much for sharing.
Does he know anything about the trade in Marine Ornamentals? Anything?
You know what would be funny? Get Air-Mic and a few others to quote a freight rate on that number of fish FOB Kiribati and Majuro into HNL and see what happens.
When I read his viewpoint I laughed so hard that my stomach hurt and I had tears rolling down my face. No big deal though, just another individual with absolutely no involvement in the trade trying to critique it.
It does, however, make for great reading and outstanding humor. Thanks so much for sharing.
No doubt that the Yellow Tang is one of the most popular fish in the aquarium trade, almost every aquarium has at least one of this. It is a fact that if over-collected it could create a problem in an specific area. The problem is that demand for Yellow Tangs is going up.
In Jamaica fisherfolks, and population in general, eat small fish ( tangs, wrasses, parrot fish, French angels etc), large fish are considered "trash".
One of the causes of coral reef deterioration in Jamaica is attributed to wipes out of sea urchins as well as to overcollection of tangs and parrotfish. It has been demonstrated that a coral reef recovers after the "introduction" of these fish.
What benefits does the aquarium industry brings to the coral reefs? What benefits the tourism brings to the coral reefs? What $ benefits brings the aquarium industry to the local economy? When answering those questions we can see that the industry is not in good position.
This "article" provides with ammunition to radical groups.
The article in question says interesting things for those who want to close down the marine aquarium trade.
In Jamaica fisherfolks, and population in general, eat small fish ( tangs, wrasses, parrot fish, French angels etc), large fish are considered "trash".
One of the causes of coral reef deterioration in Jamaica is attributed to wipes out of sea urchins as well as to overcollection of tangs and parrotfish. It has been demonstrated that a coral reef recovers after the "introduction" of these fish.
What benefits does the aquarium industry brings to the coral reefs? What benefits the tourism brings to the coral reefs? What $ benefits brings the aquarium industry to the local economy? When answering those questions we can see that the industry is not in good position.
This "article" provides with ammunition to radical groups.
The article in question says interesting things for those who want to close down the marine aquarium trade.
While there are many false and innaccurate statements posted by Sea Shepherd, I agree with Thomson, Baquero, and Naesco that there are many real problems in the marine aquarium trade. The trade has done almost nothing to help stop collection of MO fish with cyanide. There is good evidence for overcollection of MO fish in Hawaii (yellow tangs), Indonesia (Bangaii cardinals), and for habitat destruction due to cyanide fishing. The habitat destruction done to coral reefs by the trades in MO fish and live food fish by itself easily justifies bans on these trades by the exporting and importing countries (even if there are other factors destroying coral reefs like sedimentation from deforestation, and coral bleaching induced by climate change).
The pricing structure paid back though the chain of custody to MO collectors drives the collectors to use destructive fishing methods and supports poor handling and shipping practices. Hence, more fish are collected to compensate for the high mortality of fish during collection and transport. These problems are well known despite the attempts by the trade to obfuscate the issues and claim otherwise.
The trade has left it to the MAC to "solve the problems". Actually, I doubt that the MAC under Holthus ever intended to support true reform. It was greenwashing from day one and still is. So, once this information gets out to the protectionist groups (all they need to do is read RDO) we can expect some radical groups like GreenPeace, Sea Shepherd, the Humane Society and/or PIDA to mount a campaign to shut down the trade by forcing a ban on imports into western countries that buy fish, corals, clams etc. We can also expect tougher CITES regulations. Actually, putting corals and seahorses on Appendix II amounts to an outright ban in the Philippines, since they don't issue CITES permits (they could do so if they wanted to).
The trade has bashed true reformists like myself, Steve Robinson, Ferdinand Cruz, and Mike King. The various factions in the MO trade, seeking to out compete each other for financial gain, must unite and do something to ensure sustainable supplies of marine organisms, if they wish to survive. The trade had (and still has) the opportunity to hire or contract the services of field-oriented reformists, for proper net trainings and other conservation oriented programs that would benefit a sustainable trade. Instead, they belatedly join the MAC, but refused to pay to be certified. Well, that smoke screen has failed.
So, here comes the radical protectionist groups. I doubt that PIJAC can save the trade any more than the MAC. Perhaps, that is why Marshall Myers (PIJAC), Bruce Bunting (WWF), and Paul Holthus (MAC) have resigned from the MAC BOD.
While all this is going on, EASTI is doing things right without help from the rest of the trade.
Peter Rubec
The pricing structure paid back though the chain of custody to MO collectors drives the collectors to use destructive fishing methods and supports poor handling and shipping practices. Hence, more fish are collected to compensate for the high mortality of fish during collection and transport. These problems are well known despite the attempts by the trade to obfuscate the issues and claim otherwise.
The trade has left it to the MAC to "solve the problems". Actually, I doubt that the MAC under Holthus ever intended to support true reform. It was greenwashing from day one and still is. So, once this information gets out to the protectionist groups (all they need to do is read RDO) we can expect some radical groups like GreenPeace, Sea Shepherd, the Humane Society and/or PIDA to mount a campaign to shut down the trade by forcing a ban on imports into western countries that buy fish, corals, clams etc. We can also expect tougher CITES regulations. Actually, putting corals and seahorses on Appendix II amounts to an outright ban in the Philippines, since they don't issue CITES permits (they could do so if they wanted to).
The trade has bashed true reformists like myself, Steve Robinson, Ferdinand Cruz, and Mike King. The various factions in the MO trade, seeking to out compete each other for financial gain, must unite and do something to ensure sustainable supplies of marine organisms, if they wish to survive. The trade had (and still has) the opportunity to hire or contract the services of field-oriented reformists, for proper net trainings and other conservation oriented programs that would benefit a sustainable trade. Instead, they belatedly join the MAC, but refused to pay to be certified. Well, that smoke screen has failed.
So, here comes the radical protectionist groups. I doubt that PIJAC can save the trade any more than the MAC. Perhaps, that is why Marshall Myers (PIJAC), Bruce Bunting (WWF), and Paul Holthus (MAC) have resigned from the MAC BOD.
While all this is going on, EASTI is doing things right without help from the rest of the trade.
Peter Rubec
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Actually Snorkle Bob draws some accurate conclusions despite his quick and snappy cadence of false data.
He has no evidence thats accurate and clearly gathers it from heresay at various bars thru out the Islands....but, he knows how insincere many non profit groups have become and has lumped them together with the trade they got into bed with.
So if any sincere environmental people out there wonder why the dream team, the dream budget allocations and the best public relations machine ever put on the aquarium trade issues have come up dry, re-read his rant without respect to the evidence offered.
Actually....correct evidence alone is still a pretty strong indictment against our trades practices in S.E. Asia. His exagerrations and hyperbole are harmful to the case as they give cause for alienation, espescially among reformers.
Our global trade in marines may be pretty guilty in a number of areas but Snorkle Bob is just not a very good investigator.
Then again ...since when did good science ever constitute policy?
Google him up....he has published more rants then Dennis Miller.
Steve
He has no evidence thats accurate and clearly gathers it from heresay at various bars thru out the Islands....but, he knows how insincere many non profit groups have become and has lumped them together with the trade they got into bed with.
So if any sincere environmental people out there wonder why the dream team, the dream budget allocations and the best public relations machine ever put on the aquarium trade issues have come up dry, re-read his rant without respect to the evidence offered.
Actually....correct evidence alone is still a pretty strong indictment against our trades practices in S.E. Asia. His exagerrations and hyperbole are harmful to the case as they give cause for alienation, espescially among reformers.
Our global trade in marines may be pretty guilty in a number of areas but Snorkle Bob is just not a very good investigator.
Then again ...since when did good science ever constitute policy?
Google him up....he has published more rants then Dennis Miller.
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
This industry has been largely based in countries of 'multiple decade' dictators whose fishery departments never insisted on the proper paper that the Western mind needs to understand things.
In cultures of corruption...accurate paperwork is exactly what they don't want.
However, that doesn't mean they are not bureaucratic....
They demand a great deal of useless paperwork with false infomation as Gresham alluded to. They are experienced at printing what is needed to close any deal and appear correct...
If the West wants paper....they will oblige.
The USFWS has tons literally of paper on tropical fish imports for all the good it does and all that it reveals.
Research that filters thru the hands of politically focused administrators doesn't neccessarily constitute good policy at all.
Good research may lead to good policy.... but in poor and traditionally corrupt areas....it often gets ignored.
In fact , research often benefits only the researcher and far flung egg heads who have no stake in local policy and culture..
If we really want to help...the focus must be on village economic benefit and sustainable collecting practice first...and that will open the door to the villages and allow the real story to be seen.
Steve
In cultures of corruption...accurate paperwork is exactly what they don't want.
However, that doesn't mean they are not bureaucratic....
They demand a great deal of useless paperwork with false infomation as Gresham alluded to. They are experienced at printing what is needed to close any deal and appear correct...
If the West wants paper....they will oblige.
The USFWS has tons literally of paper on tropical fish imports for all the good it does and all that it reveals.
Research that filters thru the hands of politically focused administrators doesn't neccessarily constitute good policy at all.
Good research may lead to good policy.... but in poor and traditionally corrupt areas....it often gets ignored.
In fact , research often benefits only the researcher and far flung egg heads who have no stake in local policy and culture..
If we really want to help...the focus must be on village economic benefit and sustainable collecting practice first...and that will open the door to the villages and allow the real story to be seen.
Steve
Well alot of the collection practices are out of our control here in the States, but there are things that can be done to help. Wholesalers can ensure the LFS's and big box stores they sell to have proper setups and acclimation procedures. They can also look inward to improving their own systems and practices. For instance there is a lot of info about medications for fish but no real data on what is best to run in a store with instructions etc. Took me weeks of research to get the correct mixes. Copper, formalin, etc, there are a ton of options. I hear of shops telling customers they don't medicate as it is bad and that is a hug falsehood IMO. Proper medication practices is helping a ton since I started doing them. Maybe they can put pressure on Petco to stop the senseless deaths everyone sees in their systems weekly by upgrading to functional systems.
I know it's hard to expect all to do but i bet the big ones can motivate healthy systems with a DOA and DAA guarantee for those shops that have them. Proper flow, UV, Ozone, Medication practices, water quality, husbandry certifications/online training, acclimation training, etc can all be a big plus and not to hard for a wholesalers to accomplish. I know a lot of stores that have employees that can benefit from this as the owner, manager, or actually brains of the store is not always around to deal with these items.
Any fish delivered to a end user healthy with a long life expectancy is one less that needs to be caught to replace it........
I know it's hard to expect all to do but i bet the big ones can motivate healthy systems with a DOA and DAA guarantee for those shops that have them. Proper flow, UV, Ozone, Medication practices, water quality, husbandry certifications/online training, acclimation training, etc can all be a big plus and not to hard for a wholesalers to accomplish. I know a lot of stores that have employees that can benefit from this as the owner, manager, or actually brains of the store is not always around to deal with these items.
Any fish delivered to a end user healthy with a long life expectancy is one less that needs to be caught to replace it........
Even though I am in no way an animal rights activist, sometimes I think it would be good if fish stores were held to certain standards like pet shops that sell dogs and cats. I am all for the hobby, but I hate to see all the senseless death of organisms that can be easily prevented. I don't know a lot about collecting techniques in the SE Pacific, but I was under the impression that a lot of improvements have been made. It seems to me that the Fish Shops themselves have to take the stance as the front line in the battle of a sustainable industry. I really believe that is what my LFS attempts to do, and that is why I buy all my fish from there. Ways they can do this include:
1. Promoting frag trades - this encourages people to want to take care of their tanks so they can acheive what others have done in raising their own corals. It also encourages people to buy captive raised corals, and to a point, captive raised fish.
2. Educating customers - While a store shouldn't just assume that everyone that comes in is a dummy and needs a huge lecture about how to keep what they are buying, they should ask probing questions to determine the skill level of their customer and offer advice if necessary. This alone would eliminate a lot of the useless death of organisms in the hobby.
3. As swsaltwater states, shops need to understand medications and how to properly use them to prevent diseases in their holding tanks. Too many stores have "Ich breeding facilities". The fact is that most hobbiests, no matter how much you try to educate them, are just not going to quarantine their fish. Most people want a single aquarium that looks nice, without all the other stuff. While there will always be risks in this, stores can, at least do their part to not add to the problem by keeping fish in disease infested tanks. IMO, this can be improved by running a minimal therapeutic dose of copper in their fish systems and performing freshwater formalin dips on incoming fish to reduce subsceptible pathogens.
4. Fish Shops should refuse to buy from wholesalers that are not demanding that their fish be caught sustainably. While this may be hard to investigate, there should be a considerable amount of pressure to do so and consequences for not. The fish shops that do make an attempt to offer sustainable collected and maricultured organisms should make it known. Just as tuna cans have the "dolphin safe" logos on them, fish shops should have similar certifications for their livestock.
Even though I think the fish shops are the front line, the decision does ultimately fall on the consumer. I believe that if fish shops educate their customers and make them aware of websites like reefs.org that the consumer will ultimately make the correct decision about purchasing sustainable livestock. This is the biggest disagreement I have with the snorkel dude. I don't think most aquarists are careless. I just think they are uneducated about what is really going on. With education comes caring concern.
1. Promoting frag trades - this encourages people to want to take care of their tanks so they can acheive what others have done in raising their own corals. It also encourages people to buy captive raised corals, and to a point, captive raised fish.
2. Educating customers - While a store shouldn't just assume that everyone that comes in is a dummy and needs a huge lecture about how to keep what they are buying, they should ask probing questions to determine the skill level of their customer and offer advice if necessary. This alone would eliminate a lot of the useless death of organisms in the hobby.
3. As swsaltwater states, shops need to understand medications and how to properly use them to prevent diseases in their holding tanks. Too many stores have "Ich breeding facilities". The fact is that most hobbiests, no matter how much you try to educate them, are just not going to quarantine their fish. Most people want a single aquarium that looks nice, without all the other stuff. While there will always be risks in this, stores can, at least do their part to not add to the problem by keeping fish in disease infested tanks. IMO, this can be improved by running a minimal therapeutic dose of copper in their fish systems and performing freshwater formalin dips on incoming fish to reduce subsceptible pathogens.
4. Fish Shops should refuse to buy from wholesalers that are not demanding that their fish be caught sustainably. While this may be hard to investigate, there should be a considerable amount of pressure to do so and consequences for not. The fish shops that do make an attempt to offer sustainable collected and maricultured organisms should make it known. Just as tuna cans have the "dolphin safe" logos on them, fish shops should have similar certifications for their livestock.
Even though I think the fish shops are the front line, the decision does ultimately fall on the consumer. I believe that if fish shops educate their customers and make them aware of websites like reefs.org that the consumer will ultimately make the correct decision about purchasing sustainable livestock. This is the biggest disagreement I have with the snorkel dude. I don't think most aquarists are careless. I just think they are uneducated about what is really going on. With education comes caring concern.
I don't think that LFS's are the frontline at all. To me it's like saying grocery stores are the frontline in stopping e. coli or salmonella infected meats. In other industries you start with the manufacturer not the retailer. The "manufacturer" in the case of livestock is the importer/wholesaler. My experience with them is that most really don't care too much about the long term health of the animals they sell or the success of the hobbyist's who buy their animals. If they live long enough to be sold then it's all good as far as they are concerned.
RichardS":1yis3uo1 said:
That is exactly why the fish stores have to be the ones to take action. They must demand healthy livestock from the wholesalers and refuse to do business with the ones that do not collect sustainably and take extra care to maintain the health of the organisms sold.
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