Aquacultured P. maculosus.

[Anonymous]

Back in my store/wholesale days, even wild specimens were rare.
I can't remember the last time I saw one in a store.

I'm finishing up part II of the Angel article, and writing a brief profile on this species - so any of you know if captive specimens are available at a reasonable price and frequency these days?

Cheers
Jim

 

[IconicAquariums]

Jim,

there is at least one company in Taiwan breeding & exporting these with regularity(mostly to Japan/HK), and they are available in decent numbers. This also includes the White Moon variety, which doesn't seem to be too available in the states. The regular Yellow are available at decent prices, while the White Moon are rather expensive for the species. ORA used to import them, but I don't know if they are still distributing them. LA has a listing for them here:

http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_dis ... id=344&N=0



joe

 

[IconicAquariums]

Jim, i just went through some emails, and there is P. asfur also being bred & exported. Excited to hopefully see some babies

Here is a link to one of the farms' marine aquaculture page: http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modules. ... _cat&cid=9

joe

 

[Anonymous]

Much appreciated.

 

[naesco]

Jim, i just went through some emails, and there is P. asfur also being bred & exported. Excited to hopefully see some babies

Here is a link to one of the farms' marine aquaculture page: http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modules. ... _cat&cid=9

joe

So why are wild species still allowed to be imported?

Should they be placed on CITES so that they can be protected along with clowns, anemone and other species that can be aquacultured?

Wayne Ryan

 

[spawner]

You never saw an asfur come in they were all maculosus. They were great fish but it was always a disappointment when you thought you had an asfur and when the adult color came in it was a maculosus.

 

[Anonymous]

Jim, i just went through some emails, and there is P. asfur also being bred & exported. Excited to hopefully see some babies

Here is a link to one of the farms' marine aquaculture page: http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modules. ... _cat&cid=9

joe

So why are wild species still allowed to be imported?

Should they be placed on CITES so that they can be protected along with clowns, anemone and other species that can be aquacultured?

Wayne Ryan

That would be an abuse of CITES. CITES is set up to protect animals that need major protection, which the Asfur does not even come close to meeting (nor clowns). Heck, they couldn't even get the B. cardinal on there with documentation it is truly threatend!

Hopefully CITES never bows down to the "feel good" do gooders like yourself and they stick to their scientific guns. Shooting down Bangaii's was wrong, but the ones that opposed it aren't the cleanish of nations when it comes to supporting CITES efforts.

 

[naesco]

Gresham

So whey would YOU import a wild species when an aqua-cultured species is available?

Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

Probably because the buying public demands it, and he has to provide himself a living as best he can.

Why would YOU import it, Wayne? Oh yeah, that's right...you don't import anything. Do you even have a tank?

Peace,

Chip

 

[naesco]

Probably because the buying public demands it, and he has to provide himself a living as best he can.

Why would YOU import it, Wayne? Oh yeah, that's right...you don't import anything. Do you even have a tank?

Peace,

The buying public demands wild over aquaculture. Nonsense.
I did not suggest the he shouldn't be able to make a living.

I certainly wouldn't import wild species where aqua-culture is available.
If you havn't read about, the reefs are on a down hill slide together with the critters that depend on the reefs.
Accordingly, there is no justification to importing wild species if aquaculture is available.

I have two tanks, one at my home and the other at my office.

Give me one reason why industry should continue to buy wild species over aqua-culture, please.

Thank you
Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

I have two tanks, one at my home and the other at my office.

Can you post some pictures of your tanks? I'd like to see what they look like.

Give me one reason why industry should continue to buy wild species over aqua-culture, please.

...because the bulk of the consumers that are in this hobby look at price, and price only when purchasing. Not only that, but they seem to resist education as to why paying more for aquaculture is not only better, but necessary in the long run.

Peace,

Chip

 

[IconicAquariums]

I certainly wouldn't import wild species where aqua-culture is available.

Wayne,

please contact the farm in taiwan. ask for specific numbers of fish produced, and where they are exported to and how feasible it would be for them to produce enough numbers of said fish to sustain the entire hobby worldwide. ask for a concrete date so you can start trying to get the fish on CITES because someone is breeding a few fish.

you should really look at trends in the industry. Gresham has a great point regarding Bangaii cardinals. They are still imported like crazy, and most die. I don't see most hobbyists/suppliers stepping up and flooding the market with CB ones. They would be twice the price, but well worth it in the longrun. perhaps you should focus on something that is already a problem.

thanks,
joe

 

[naesco]

I have two tanks, one at my home and the other at my office.

Can you post some pictures of your tanks? I'd like to see what they look like.

Give me one reason why industry should continue to buy wild species over aqua-culture, please.

...because the bulk of the consumers that are in this hobby look at price, and price only when purchasing. Not only that, but they seem to resist education as to why paying more for aquaculture is not only better, but necessary in the long run.

Peace,

Chip

I will post a picture of my office tank soon. The glass cracked on my home tank cracked and is being replaced under warranty.

So the reason you and others buy wild caught instead of aqua-culture is price because you think that is what hobbyists are only interested in.

I would like to know what the price difference is.

What is the price you pay for a wild caught P. maculosus and what is your typical sale price similar size?
What is the price you pay for aqua-cultured P. maculosus and what is yur typical sale price similar size?

Thank you

Wayne Ryan

 

[naesco]

I certainly wouldn't import wild species where aqua-culture is available.

Wayne,

please contact the farm in taiwan. ask for specific numbers of fish produced, and where they are exported to and how feasible it would be for them to produce enough numbers of said fish to sustain the entire hobby worldwide. ask for a concrete date so you can start trying to get the fish on CITES because someone is breeding a few fish.

you should really look at trends in the industry. Gresham has a great point regarding Bangaii cardinals. They are still imported like crazy, and most die. I don't see most hobbyists/suppliers stepping up and flooding the market with CB ones. They would be twice the price, but well worth it in the longrun. perhaps you should focus on something that is already a problem.

thanks,
joe

Thanks Joe
As I understand your first statement you are saying there is not enough supply. Don't you think the Taiwan supplier would ramp up his operation to meet the demand. Don't you think others would enter into the supply market if there was a demand.

I submit that the trend in the industry is the continuing lack of supply of top selling quality fish and coral because fewer and fewer wild are available? Don't you think this trend would be reversed if more and more aquacultured fish and coral were available.

Joe would you mind doing this for me. Would you or someone in industry contact the Taiwan supplier with the excellent questions you posed as it will be difficult for me as I am not an importer of fish.
In turn, I will contact CITES and see what steps if any they have taken on the Bangaii cardinals.

And thanks for your comments on the very poor survival rate of the wild caught Bangaii cardinals.
It begs the question: Why does industry still import them?

Thanks
Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

In turn, I will contact CITES and see what steps if any they have taken on the Bangaii cardinals.

Did you just say that? It was announced publicly last year. No need to ask, just GOOGLE :roll: There must be a half dozen threads I was involved in re: CITES denial of the B. cardinal.

Your on top of it. What it is I don't know :lol:

Joe, don't feed the troll

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... t=#1344808

ftp://ftp.fao.org/FI/DOCUMENT/r833_adva ... vanced.pdf

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=268

Scroll down half way and see a post by the guy that made the proposal.

 

[IconicAquariums]

Your on top of it. What it is I don't know :lol:

Joe, don't feed the troll

ok, putting my foot back in my mouth

 

[naesco]

In turn, I will contact CITES and see what steps if any they have taken on the Bangaii cardinals.

Did you just say that? It was announced publicly last year. No need to ask, just GOOGLE :roll: There must be a half dozen threads I was involved in re: CITES denial of the B. cardinal.

Your on top of it. What it is I don't know :lol:

Joe, don't feed the troll

Thank you for the current information on the B. cardinal. I have got to say that I am impressed with your knowledge of the B. cardinal situation and the fact that you frequent a marine aqua-culture web site. Do you buy anything from them?

In light of the grave concerns about B. cardinal, do you still buy wild species?

I would also like you to answer the 'cost questions' I posed.

Thank you

Wayne Ryan

 

[naesco]

Your on top of it. What it is I don't know :lol:

Joe, don't feed the troll

ok, putting my foot back in my mouth

Joe the original purpose in starting this, the industry forum, was to allow dialogue between industry and reefers concerning the hobby/industry we share.
Please continue with your posts which are quite informative.

Thank you
Wayne Ryan