Ban Live Rock Imports

[PeterIMA]

There have been discussions among coral reefs scientists on the Gulf and Caribbean Fisheries Institute Network (GCFINET) about banning the importation of live rock. Below are some of their concerns.

Peter Rubec

This message was originally submitted by Don

I have a real bad feeling about the imported live rock business regarding the possibility of it being a source for the introduction of invasive species. Presently, live rock comes into the US from numerous locations (Fiji, Tonga, Haiti, etc) with very little regulation.

It is legal to take a chunk of the reef from half way around the planet, ship it to the US for sale in the aquarium trade. I have made numerous calls to different agencies and found there really is not much in the way of regulation. As long as there is no contraband or endangered species involved it seems to be OK with all the agencies. To make matters worse, some wholesalers in the US hold imported live rock in open systems. Who knows what is being flushed into near shore waters! We could be importing all sorts of pathogens, ascidians that overgrow corals, or jellyfish. Can you imagine what the impact on the tourist industry in South Florida would be if we got a bloom of box jellyfish, similar to those found around Darwin Australia?

If a nursery business ever tried to get a permit to import potted plants (with soil, etc) from Africa I am sure they would be denied. However it is perfectly legal to take a living piece of the reef from half way around the world, bring it to the US, sell it and not be accountable for what happens to it from that point on. It is a serious problem. Anyone have any thought on this?

Don

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yah like that relates to 90% of the united states. Sure, ban it in tropical regions of the states, but um, Arizona/Colorado/Utah/MAINE/etc?

How many "open" systems are there really in the states? Non here in Cali, I'll you that RIGHT now. I thought FLA was on top of waste water from such facilities? I thought you had to get a permit? The AC facilities have to get permitted and show how their deal with their waste water.

 

[PeterIMA]

Gresham, This is only one of three postings I received today. One other poster is calling on scientists to support an amendment to existing legislation to support a ban on live rock imports. Personally, I agree with you. I don't see the need for a ban. I also would like to know which importers have open systems. I don't know of any. I should note the person making the post (Don) seems to be targeting Walt Smith.

Peter

 

[PeterIMA]

duplicate posting deleted

 

[Anonymous]

Gresham, This is only one of three postings I received today. One other poster is calling on scientists to support an amendment to existing legislation to support a ban on live rock imports. Personally, I agree with you. I don't see the need for a ban. I also would like to know which importers have open systems. I don't know of any. I should note the person making the post (Don) seems to be targeting Walt Smith.

Peter

Walt Smith DOESN'T TANK HIS ROCK!!!!! No open system at his facility. Sounds like another WITCH hunt.

Dunk him, if he floats, he's a witch!!!

Great, ban it in Gulf and Caribbean states, but um, to do a blanket ban is rather unscientific. Are these real scientists or just knee jerk politically driven scientists :lol:

 

[swsaltwater]

I would like to see them limit the rock that is not harvested in a environmentally friendly manner, but this seems rediculous. We should be moving to all aquaculture rock one day.....

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to see them limit the rock that is not harvested in a environmentally friendly manner, but this seems ridiculous. We should be moving to all aquaculture rock one day.....

And how would USF&WS know what is "harvested in a environmentally friendly manner"? A c e r t i f i c a t i o n from some outside group or an underfunded national agency on the export side?

Most exporting nations have decent regulation on their part but little to no enforcement. Take PI for example, they have some great fisheries laws on the books and very little money/man power to enforce them, not to mention corruption.

 

[swsaltwater]

That is the hiccup, I think maybe Cites should regulate it. I think we all know areas that definately dynamite reefs for rock and should start there for reform. Support Aquacultured Rock as much as possible.

 

[Anonymous]

That is the hiccup, I think maybe Cites should regulate it. I think we all know areas that definately dynamite reefs for rock and should start there for reform. Support Aquacultured Rock as much as possible.

CITES doesn't do that. They depend on the nation to regulate that. CITES is a paperwork agency basically,

 

[JeremyR]

Not only is the fiji rock not tanked, but I wouldn't exactly call it live either.. how long is it from ocean to water again in the container shipping method days we live in now? Hehe.

 

[dizzy]

It seems like Mary Middlebrook may of had an open system there in Cali. I remember seeing pictures of the pump out there in the bay. I'm not sure how she treated her effluent. Is her facility still in operation?

 

[JeremyR]

I don't think the guy who bought her out is still there at that location. I know she was pump fed, but I don't know where the effluent went, but I don't remember anyone ever saying it was "open" where it just ran back into the ocean.

 

[Fish_dave]

I think we all know areas that definately dynamite reefs for rock and should start there for reform.


I would like to know who is dynamiting reefs for rock. I have visited most places that export live rock and have watched and done much collecting. I have never seen any explosive used for live rock collection and think that stating that explosives are used is careless and unprofessional.

Good live rock needs to be hand selected and is taken only from the top of the reef structure or is taken from broken pieces in the intertidal zone. To use explosives for live rock collection would give you some pretty bad live rock.

Most of the live rock that I see coming in these days should be called Decorative Rock or something similar not "Live Rock" as I don't see much of anything live on it anymore. In my opinion the only way to get "Live" Live rock is to fly it in on a plane and get it back in the water within a day or so, bringing it in by surface transport out of the water for three weeks or more does not leave much if anything live. These scientists should get a typical box of "Live Rock" from L.A. and test it to see if there is anything live left on it. I think that they would be surprized.

Dave

 

[Fish_dave]

Another thing that I see in swsaltwaters post is that Cites should regulate live rock. For his info Cites is not a regulatory organization. Cites collects numbers and helps countries enforce Quotas that have been set by the member countries. For instance a Cites permit from Indonesia lets the U.S. know that the Indonesian quotas for those species have not been exceeded. There is no real regulation from Cites, they can not write a ticket for a violation, they can only shuffle paperwork. Fish and Wildlife uses Cites paperwork for enforcement, they can write a ticket.

Cites is involved with live rock into the states in that it is required to have a Cites permit to import the rock which states that the originating countrys quota has not been exceeded.

Dave

 

[swsaltwater]

Maybe they can just yank the Permits from countries with collection issues. Something probably has to be done within the industry to keep those outside the industry from making the rules.

 

[Anonymous]

Something to supersede government regulation? What are you suggesting?

 

[Anonymous]

And they do yank permits time to time. Look at Vietnam's record

 

[clarionreef]

Guys,
Box jelly fish... open systems up and down the coast...dynamite reefs to get rock...puh-lease.
The point is cheapened if hyperbole and hysteria are the basis of for alarm.
Non ocean savy people may see this stuff and imagine that it has a chance in a million to actually come true.
Good causes dont need fibs or embellishment...how bout just a straight truth...?
Oh, thats not alarmist enough? ....and why do we want an alarm where there is not a threat?
Are there not actual threats to consider rather then hope for some exotic non existant ones?
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Wait, the sky isn't falling....damn there goes the funding I was seeking to study the sky falling

don't you have some divers to train rather then crushing my dreams

 

[Fish_dave]

Who are these countries with Live Rock collection issues ? I do not know of any country that has a Live Rock collection issue. I still want to know which countries are using explosives to collect Live Rock. Please let us know.

Cites can not "pull the permits" if a country is within it's quota. Now the U.S. Fish and Wildlife can "pull the permits" as they are an enforcement agency and actually have some power. If Fish and Wildlife decide to stop the import of live rock they would be able to do it. Cites only confirms that things are done according to a preset protocol and are within quota limits.

I get tired of people with NO FIELD EXPERIENCE throwing rocks at something that they really do not know much about. There is a huge preconcived notion that taking things away from the reef or out of the water is bad. That is not always the case. I have seen alot of live rock collected and can not say that I have ever seen real damage done to the reef where it was collected. I have seen some dredging projects and building projects that have done huge damage to reefs but hand collecting live rock just does not do damage. After one month it is very difficult to see where any live rock or coral was taken unless you were there during the taking.

Most of the talk about live rock is just preconcived ideas and notions. In two different countries I was involved with live rock collection where we were asked to concentrate on a specific area because they wanted the area cleared of rock. After several YEARS in a very limited area we had not dented the rock or coral and bulldozers and back hoes were brought in to clear the area. It is impossible to clear even 100 yards of reef of live rock in years when collecting by hand and shipping out via the airlines. Hurricanes and cyclones see to it that it is replaced as it is taken.

Sorry for the rant but I think that too much is being said by armchair environmentalists who do not really understand the subject and have no field experience.

Dave

I don't even do much business with live rock. Certainly I sell less than anyone else on 104th yet here I am standing up for it. It would not hurt my business if it was banned but I do not think that a legitimate case can be made for stopping it due to damage to the reef.