Fish Acclimation and Packing Techniques

[tommyfishpr]

In my opinion, if you had to choose one procedure as the most important, I would say neutralizing the ammonia is number 1. All imported fish have very high ammonia levels, and it can be super toxic and damage the fish beyond repair if not neutralized.

Eric

Thanks sdcfish.

With that said, is there a known good procedure to do this?

 

[PeterIMA]

Eric, I agree that ammonia is a big part of the problem, associated with
shipping. We use a chemical formulation that includes an Amquel-like compound. This is used for shipping fish from villages where collectors reside to the export facility in Bali. Then the same chemical additives are used for overseas shipments.

Ammonia can cause clubbing of the gills. Fish that arrive alive (but with clubbed gills) may still die if not kept in a very oxygen rich environment until the gills regenerate. Ammonia is also a stressor. It can cause the fish to have elevated cortisol hormone levels (indicator of stress). Low oxygen that also occurs in the bags is another stressor.

So, adding an Amquel-like substance to bind ammonia should start before the fish reach the export facility (such as Manila or Denpasar).

I should also point out that Amquel+ is not the same as the original Amquel. I had less success with Amquel+. There are other formulations available. But, I have not evaluated them.

Amquel takes a while to react, so adding it to the shipping bags works. Adding it after the fish arrive and the bags are opened may not work as well. There are other ammonia-binding agents that work more quickly that could be used (when the fish arrive).

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Would you say the ammonia itself is more harmful, the shift in pH, or the combination is what seems to push them over?

 

[Anonymous]

Ammonia itself It's like breathing fire to the poor fishies

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks. I had one occasion to suspect primarily pH shift as the cause of an untimely demise, as the ammonia level was just trace, but I hadn't tested the pH right out of the bag so didn't know where it was.

 

[Anonymous]

Eric, Good point about carbon dioxide use to lower the pH. Most fishes can withstand a rapid rise in pH. So, I agree that the use of carbon dioxide to lower pH in the receiving water may be more harmful than it is worth.

As far as ammonium in the bags (that becomes ammonia as the pH rises), I suggest that you or your suppliers use an ammonia binding agent in the bags during shipment, so that it is not necessary to add the ammonia binding agent when the bags are opened.

Peter

Peter explained it best here Marina. When you tested, was it for ammonia or ammonium, or does one test cover both? It's been a while since I myself have needed to test for ammonia :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Oh my God, Gresham... We're talking about pre-1994 here. :shock:
I honestly don't remember... it may have been Seachem because that was what I preferred. When we got any shipments that had taken longer than expected or from certain vendors, or if the fish appeared to be excessively stressed testing for the NH3 was my SOP. Good lord... You made me count the years! :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

sorry

I know how I can make good though

 

[Anonymous]

Next time we're heading to the Bay Area I'll send you a message and let you know.

 

[Anonymous]

 

[Anonymous]

In my opinion, if you had to choose one procedure as the most important, I would say neutralizing the ammonia is number 1. All imported fish have very high ammonia levels, and it can be super toxic and damage the fish beyond repair if not neutralized.

If you use CO2 to lower the ph...you definately run the risks of low oxygen in the acclimation water and that causes further damage.

Air stones are great, but they raise ph and it's hard to control how fast that rises using airstones, unless you are monitoring it, and using controlers or lot's of labor to make sure the ph is rising at the pace you want.

Good thread.

Eric

I agree with Eric.

Eric (and all), do you guys use Amquel or some other ammonia neutralizer when shipping high end fish?

 

[Anonymous]

I've used ClorAm-X. If anyone wants to try it just let me know via PM, I'll send you a sample

 

[Anonymous]

I've used ClorAm-X. If anyone wants to try it just let me know via PM, I'll send you a sample

Nah, let's make this a real test. Just ship me one of these with ClorAm-X in the bag as a test and I'll let you know how it goes

 

[PeterIMA]

I believe that Clorame_X is the same chemical formulation as the original Amquel (not the same as Amquel+).

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.reed-mariculture.com/cloram-x/techdoc.asp

from the Amquel+ link on the above page (you need to "save link as" rather then click on it)

In recent months the appearance of a new aquarium water conditioner from Kordon (division of Novalek, Inc., Hayward, CA), called AmQuel®+, has been the cause of confusion and a great number of questions about its claims. It’s not surprising that AquaScience Research Group (ARG) would be receiving such questions from users of AmQuel+ because the product Kordon has marketed for a number of years under the name AmQuel® was developed and patented, and is manufactured, by ARG. However, to set the record straight, the new product, AmQuel®+, is not a product of ARG. ARG is not responsible for its performance nor the claims made for it. Indeed, ARG has had the product evaluated by an independent testing laboratory that concluded AmQuel+ does not remove nitrates and nitrites as claimed!

Let’s look at exactly what claims are being made for AmQuel+. The product is summarized in the following excerpt from Novalek’s web page:

“AmQuel removes (actually detoxifies) a slight amount of Nitrites and Nitrates and other related organics, but less than 1 ppm, and not enough to be significant. AmQuel+ removes (detoxifies) both Nitrites and Nitrates, and is very different from AmQuel in taking out hefty amounts of these toxic compounds per dose (see Product Data Sheet KPD-79 for AmQuel+ for more information). Therefore, AmQuel+ can take care of the toxicity of the entire nitrogen cycle by detoxifying them - ammonia through nitrites through nitrates, yet still leave the remains available to the nitrifying and other beneficial bacteria to consume them. The beneficial bacteria do not know the difference and eat the nitrogenous compounds that AmQuel+ has provided. This is a major advantageous breakthrough in aquarium and pond keeping in being able to eliminate the toxicity of the entire nitrogen cycle to fishes and aquatic invertebrates. Also, AmQuel+ reduces or removes a range of toxic nitrogenous compounds that otherwise build up in older aquariums and ponds. This allows the need for water changes to be less frequent, which can be a great saving in time and expense.” (http://www.novalek.com/kpd80.htm#anchor429880)

The AmQuel®+ is claimed to take out “hefty amounts (emphasis added)” of nitrites and nitrates.” After performing its own tests which indicated the product did not work, ARG decided to have AmQuel+ tested by a well-respected lab that has no financial ties to the pet or aquarium industry (the identity of the laboratory is available upon written request).

What caused us to take this dramatic action? Here’s what we found in our own laboratory. Using Kordon’s AquaTru nitrite and nitrate test kits, we conducted some preliminary tests in the aquariums at ARG’s laboratory. The initial results showed that, indeed, added nitrite and or nitrate anions could not be detected after the addition of the AmQuel®+, but there were indications that the product was masking or interfering with the color indicator associated with the testing procedure.

With growing suspicions about AmQuel+, therefore, ARG decided to have independent tests performed using a laboratory method that would not be interfered with by the product itself. The testing lab chose to use ion chromatography. This type of chromatography (despite the name) is not based upon color, but on the conductivity of ions in the water sample. It is well known that ionic substances dissolved in water increases its conductivity. Using this, ion chromatography uses a small diameter column filled with an adsorptive substance that allows the ions in a water sample to be separated (based upon ionic size and charge) and eluted (washed out), one after the other, to a very sensitive conductivity detector. As each ion comes through the column and to the detector, a plotter prints out a chromatogram where each individual ion appears as a spike, or peak, over a flat baseline. The height and width of the peak (the area under the peak) represents the concentration of each ion detected, and the position of each peak along the length of the chromatogram represents the time it took for each ion to elute from the column. Typically the larger the ion the longer it takes to travel the length of the column. Nitrate and nitrite are small ions and elute relatively quickly, and the column used is able to separate the two ions even though they differ only by the weight of one oxygen atom.

The tests were performed on AmQuel®+ samples acquired in California. They were sent directly to the testing lab and subjected to the lab’s examination. A full copy of the test results can be requested from ARG, but it is approximately 200 pages long (including all correspondence between the lab and ARG). The pages that pertain only to the tests and their results are slightly fewer. Interested parties may request copies of the tests; all requests must be in writing. The tests were conducted on December 4th and 5th, 2003.

The bottom line is summed up in the second sentence of the first paragraph of the “Summary Report”:

“The significance of the test was that Amquel+ does not remove nitrates at levels of 10.0 mg/L and 75.0 mg/L, and Amquel+ does not remove nitrites at levels of 0.500 mg/L and 3.00 mg/L, when the Amquel+ is used according to the directions on the label (1 teaspoon or 5 mL per 10 gallons of water).”

AmQuel®+ and AmQuel® are both registered trademarks of Novalek, Inc.

 

[vaporize]

Does any of these ammonia neutralizer really neturalize/remove nitrate ?

In my opinion, not really, otherwise, why would all the saltwater people always try to find ways to decrease nitrate (DSB, denitrifier, sulphur reactor, refugium, nitrate removing media....etc..etc..). Just dose a cup of _______ and take out the nitrate.

 

[Anonymous]

In aquaculture they use it by the barrel There are reasons why you just wouldn't dump a ton in your reef but me not being a chemist I'll just leave it at that. I also don't usually go for chemical solutions to problems I can overcome with non chemical solutions just as easy. However, I will use an ammonia neutralizer in cultures and shipping.

 

[Anonymous]

The above post where I have a quote from ARG is not claiming that the product removes either nitrites or nitrates but rather disputing the claim that Amquel and Amquel+ do remove nitrites and nitrates.