Contractors and fair prices

[leoskee]

Does anyone know how contractors figure out the cost of the different jobs they do? Ive had several contractors give me quotes on installing a bathroom in my basement. The job would entail: plumbing, putting up walls, electrical, sheet rock, tiling and woodwork. The quotes I got for the bathroom job range from 7.5K to 16.5K.

How can I figure out where the true cost is? I know they are trying to make money on the jobs but can anyone explain the reason for the extremes in these quotes. Is there a formula or something that I can use to figure out a fair price where the contractor is making a decent living and I am not getting ripped off? This is the same thing that happened with my kitchen remodel and the new siding job I had done over the summer.

By the way, the quoted prices are for labor only and I am in Fair Lawn, NJ.

Thanks.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I just run out of town to survey if I am goign to the take offer as the second in command in a pretty good size company kitchen and flooring factory.

I would say there is no easy way to tell.

Reputation is creteria no. one to me.
Actual previous jobs recommendations are second to consider
Product in use.

If you specified the products in the first plac enad require every contractor use the same, then price difference should be only on the reputation of the company and craftsmanship. Some company employed skilled workers that makes a job perfect and faster while some hired trainees or "skill way below" trainees to work. The job could be a very bad job but the business behind it is called "foot in the door"-get your money(at least deposit) first by giving low est. and worry about how to complete you order later.

 

[ghostshadow]

you prolly have but i'd check if they are licensed and insured. usually the very 'cheap' ones are not.

my parents are contractors (well, they run a crew) so i have a little background knowledge. i can also say they set an example of a great contractor. always pick up the phone, always stand by their work. that is very hard to find at a fair price.

materials is straightfwd. you tell them what you want, the costs are clear. labor is the big grey area. usually you won't get a breakdown since there are so many variables. you can have a shoddy contractor slap your bathroom together for $5k in 2 days. or a meticulous one for $20k for 2 weeks. OR you have a shoddy one for $20k, and a meticulous one for $10k. haha.

the first thing i'd do is call the references.. even ask if you can see their work. reputation is a great indicator. no references? pass.

also, do they pick up the phone when you call? how responsive are they? i'd put that up on my list too.

if you go cheap, you usually get what you pay for.. and end up having to redo the work in the end which costs more.

good luck!

dan

 

[Tangs Rule]

I believe alot of it depends on availability too. If a contractor is booked up for 6 months, he's in high demand and can ask a stepper price. If they have no work and are looking for work, they'll come in cheaper. I just had my entire basement finished (new floors, new walls put up, boxed in all the pipes and heating vents, built a bathroom, storage room, laundry room, etc..) and it only cost me $25,000 and another $4,300 for materials. $16,000 for just a bathroom seems really high.

 

[leoskee]

Thanks for the info guys. Im not looking to go cheap but at the same time I do not want someone to take me for my money. For example, I had my front steps redone. I went with the middle of the road guy because he gave me good references. I could have saved some money with the cheap guy be he gave me the run around for his past clients.

I have 7 quotes as of Friday. Two of which are from reputable companies that you see all over my area doing work. The others are smaller companies that I got from the internet and friends. One of the smaller companies wants 10K to do the bathroom and one of the larger ones wants 14K. Keep in mind that the job does not require breaking up the basement floor because I am going with an upflush toilet. If I go with the reputable company and pay them 14K when the smaller company could have done it for 4K less I will feel like I was taken for a ride. They are both licensed and insured and I checked them out with the BBB. Either way I think the quotes are high, especially in the market we are in where they are getting less and less jobs. I thought it would be the time to get deals on home improvement work. Go figure!

 

[junglebase]

I just had my entire basement finished (new floors, new walls put up, boxed in all the pipes and heating vents, built a bathroom, storage room, laundry room, etc..) and it only cost me $25,000 and another $4,300 for materials. $16,000 for just a bathroom seems really high.

How big is that basement that you only spent $4300 in materials, that is really a good deal if you can build a basement for $4300 in materials...

 

[tosiek]

It all depends on the contractor and whats beeing done. The math is usually materials + time spent per worker and 10-15% profit on all that. He should be pricing you on expected work. If a bathroom takes a week and a half to finish he will charge you for 2 weeks or maybe a day or two more because stuff comes up that might delay his expected finish date. Having guys working for 10-12$ an hour that set crooked walls and guys working for 17-20+ that know what they are doing is a big difference in both pricing and finish product. I would rather get better guys (mid range to high midrange not expensive) in to do alot of work and pay the money because it saves me alot of time and more money fixing or dealing with the complications.

Its VERY VERY hard to find a good knowledgable contractor that charges descent rates. 16k for work alone for a bathroom without any materials is very steep. We do small bathrooms once in a while and our charges with materials is way lower than that although i don't know what you are doing exactly.

 

[jhale]

16K for just labor is on the high side. A good quality contractor will be paying their workers around $200 a day.
Plumbing and electrical will be more.
I'd expect most average bathroom renovations to come in around 10K-12K total cost.
If your building a new one from scratch in a basement then there will be added costs.

I agree with Tony, I'd look for the company with the best rep and hire them. If they are always doing work in your area that's a very good sign.

 

[alistair]

The small company will have less overheads..... the owner probably does most of the work, and all the profit goes directly to him.
The larger company has to pay management staff and the workers before making a profit.

Make sure both companies are pulling all the proper permits.

 

[masterswimmer]

Make sure all the contractors are quoting based on the same exact specifications.

A General Contractor who hires subcontractors to do the work will charge more than a qualified 'handyman' who can do framing, plumbing, electric, sheetrock, tile, paint, trim, etc. all on his own.

Some handymen are skilled craftsmen that can do better jobs than the GC who hires specialized crews to do each part of the job.

The best way to find someone who does good work and charges fair prices is through recommendations. I'd avoid the yellow pages.

swimmer

 

[Tangs Rule]

My basement is fairly large, probably 30 x 20, give or take. We need to buy 2 x 4's, sheetrock, tiles for the floor, a few doors, a toilet, slop sink, pedistal sink, and shower base. We bought tile that was less than $2 a square foot, but still nice and bought the rest of our stuff in Lowe's.

The contractor did great work too, he has also done my bathrooms and kitchen.

How big is that basement that you only spent $4300 in materials, that is really a good deal if you can build a basement for $4300 in materials...

 

[pmui]

Make sure all the contractors are quoting based on the same exact specifications.

A General Contractor who hires subcontractors to do the work will charge more than a qualified 'handyman' who can do framing, plumbing, electric, sheetrock, tile, paint, trim, etc. all on his own.

Some handymen are skilled craftsmen that can do better jobs than the GC who hires specialized crews to do each part of the job.

The best way to find someone who does good work and charges fair prices is through recommendations. I'd avoid the yellow pages.

swimmer

I second this statement as i contract out alot of work. You must have as drawing of the project to get similar pricing, otherwise the quotes will have a huge spread.

 

[leoskee]

Again, thanks for the input. Even though I asked all of the contractors for the same job I think that a drawing would have helped me in comparing apples to apples and such. I have no idea what they are thinking so I cant expect all of the quotes to be on the same plane as the next.

The bathroom is a separate job from the basement. Its a new installation, not a remodel so I will need to provide materials from scratch. I still think the pricess are too high. Maybe I should start getting more quotes but with the drawing in hand.

WHen you guys are talking about contractors highering "guys" to do the work are you talking about day laborers? They pay them $200 a day?

 

[masterswimmer]

WHen you guys are talking about contractors highering "guys" to do the work are you talking about day laborers? They pay them $200 a day?

No Leo. What a General Contractor does is coordinate the job. He takes the plans you've laid out, puts together a timeline and sequence that each task needs to be done. You can't do tile before you do electric, etc.

He hires crews that specialize in each phase of the job. First he'll apply for a building permit, if required. Then he'll hire a framer. Then the plumber will come in to rough plumb the bathroom. Rough plumbing is different than finish plumbing. Then the electrician will come in. Then air conditioning ducts need to be run if you have central A/C. Then the insulator will come in. Then sheetrock. You get the idea.

After the framing is done, the building inspector must pass the framing job. Then he comes in after the rough plumbing is done. Then the building inspector comes in again after the electric is done, then after sheetrock. All this is done by the GC. If you hire someone who only does plumbing for instance, they may not even know what the procedure is to complete the other phases of the job.

I was a General Contractor for many years. I built homes from the ground up. Doing additions like you're doing is only a little bit different, but similar.

Anyway, a GC will coordinate all the above for you. If you are lucky enough to find a handyman who can do all the work himself then you're basically cutting out the middleman, the GC. But don't discount the value of a good GC. Done wrong, the whole job could have to be ripped out and redone if it doesn't meet code. That's why a building permit is normally required when you do plumbing, electric, insulation and sheetrock work. Each of those phases are critical to the entire job.

Hope I didn't confuse you completely.

Russ

 

[TimberTDI]

I got for the bathroom job range from 7.5K to 16.5K.
Thanks.

:EEK: I think that those prices are very high. Especially just for labor cost.

 

[leoskee]

You didnt confuse me Swimmer. I understood that part. What I was asking about was the pay of the people that do the jobs. So far I had my siding done, floors refinished, patio installed and a few other things. For all of those jobs the "guys" doing the work were all hispanic, mostly Mexican. I assumed they were day laborers that were highered out for the job. When it was posted that contractors pay $200 a day I was surprised if to think that that was how much the day laborers were paid.

So the general consensus is that the prices are too high?! What would be a reasonable amount to pay for the labor to have an 8x6 full bath installed in a basement? Obviously I would provide all materials.

 

[NYreefNoob]

if you have had other work done why not contact the people who did the other work if you are happy, make sure you fully read and understand any contract you go to sign and make sure it is in detail of what you are being charged and getting, work of mouth is the best advertisement you can get or have. a good place will have a photo book of previous work they have done,

 

[leoskee]

Thats the problem. Ive had work done but have not been completely happy with the end result. To make matters worse I have not taken the cheap road due to fears that the work would not be good. Nothing horrible but not what I expected for the amount of money paid. I probably would have had the same type of work from some of the cheaper workers.

 

[Killerdrgn]

When it was posted that contractors pay $200 a day I was surprised if to think that that was how much the day laborers were paid.

Yeah actually day laborers get paid quite well. Consider no health insurance, job security, other benifits, hard work, no taxes, etc. Some of the day laborers are acutally decently skilled at what they do.

 

[tosiek]

leo, the pay grade for the type of stuff is usually 10-13$ an hour for framing and general contracting type of work thats on the low end of the contracting spectrum so you can expect up to 100$ per day per worker at a minimum. Plumbers can get payed up to 25$ an hour if not more depending on where they come from. Alot of the contractors that do use workers of latin descent i have worked with or spoke with tend to pay them as low as 7$ an hour and you can expect the majority will be getting payed no more than 11$.

Jhale said 200$ because thats the norm for upper east side type of high end rennovation work. 150-200$ a day is the usual quote for good workers doing work in the higher tier contracting and rennovation. You won't see good installers/foremans/workers making less than 15$ on any higher end work unless they are sweeping floors or applying protection.