NooB Questions

[ryder11211]

Ok so I'm looking to start a new tank and join the legions of MR'ers. Considering this will be my first Reef tank, I have a few questions that I'm looking to get some input on.

1. I'm not really understanding the differences between types of Live Rock. Lots of people mention base rock, which sounds like LR, but simply not living? Can this type of rock be used alone in a tank? Or is it usually just used as a cheaper alternative to put underneath and support Live rock? Also, if live rock is combined with base rock, will it eventually become live rock as well? Could one buy 50% base and 50% LR, hoping to get the benefits of 100% LR 6 months down the line?

2. I have seen lots of set-ups both with and without sand. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, I think a small 1-3" sandbed or no sand at all looks the best. From what I can tell, the sand acts as another filter for the tank, but requires significant extra maintenance in terms of making sure it gets moved around. I would like to hear the main Pro's/Con's of including/ not including sand.

3. Obviously a question of personal preference, but how do people feel about bow-front tanks? Better looking? No real difference?

4. For a 75 gallon-ish set up, would it be possible to get a protein skimmer, lights and powerheads for less than $500 if I vehemently search for used items? Would like to use less than 500 - 600 watts for the lights, but want enough lumens to be able to have anemones, clams, and most corals...

I guess thats about it for now. This seems like a great site, and I anticipate starting my own detailed (and dont worry, photographed) tank thread as soon as the project gets under way (next couple months).
Thanks in advance for all advice,
Ryder

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

1. I'm not really understanding the differences between types of Live Rock. Lots of people mention base rock, which sounds like LR, but simply not living?
Base rock is dead rock, live rock has bacteria and micro-organisms living on it, types of Live rock are regions they have been harvested from and or shape.

Can this type of rock be used alone in a tank? It can be

Or is it usually just used as a cheaper alternative to put underneath and support Live rock? Usually yes it is the cheaper alternative

Also, if live rock is combined with base rock, will it eventually become live rock as well? Could one buy 50% base and 50% LR, hoping to get the benefits of 100% LR 6 months down the line? Yes it will become live over time.

2. I have seen lots of set-ups both with and without sand. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, I think a small 1-3" sandbed or no sand at all looks the best. From what I can tell, the sand acts as another filter for the tank, but requires significant extra maintenance in terms of making sure it gets moved around. I would like to hear the main Pro's/Con's of including/ not including sand. There is a thread here that discusses this, Search phrases like DSP, Deep Sand Bed, BB, or Bare Bottom

3. Obviously a question of personal preference, but how do people feel about bow-front tanks? Better looking? No real difference? I like them both, just taking pictures can get a little trickey with a bowfront.

4. For a 75 gallon-ish set up, would it be possible to get a protein skimmer, lights and powerheads for less than $500 if I vehemently search for used items? Would like to use less than 500 - 600 watts for the lights, but want enough lumens to be able to have anemones, clams, and most corals...

Look here for good prices on live rock, livestock, equipment and suggestions on lighting req's for certain corals. If you skimp on anything now you will regret it in the future cause you will be wasting your time and your money. And it will cost you double cause you'll have to buy the new correct equipment and livestock.

 

[reefman]

I feel LR will be the backbone of your reef. It should spare no compromises to get the best.
Bow fronts seems to also magnifies a bit. is it my imagination or does some1 else also think so.

 

[bueller]

I Agree With Reefman, Get As Much Of Live Rock That You Can Afford...best Filter Around.

Bueller

 

[House of Laughter]

Ryder,

In this hoibby like many others, you get what you pay for. I personally won't compromise the quality of my rock, sand, lighting or skimming - all of which I consider the backbone to my reef's success.

I used to have a 92g corner BF, and love the BF's in general - they do distort a tiny bit, but the shape is very nice. If you have room, the 92 is a more stable and better starting reef tank for what you seem to want to keep. You can look up that tank here to see how successful it was.

I am a firm believer in using more than one method of nutrient export - so, skimming is one of them, a deep sand bed is another and then a refugium is the last - and of course there are the famous water changes - a must for a successful reef in my opinion.

Rock types are known for thier location of harvest shapes and relative life that comes on/in them and is a matter of preference as to what you want in look and biodiversity. I personally only buy Tonga Slab, Tonga Branch and Fiji Premium and supplement it with base rock. Usually that ratio is 2 lbs of LR for every 1lb of base or ~ 60/40 not 50/50.

As for lighting, this is a can or worms question - there are 100 answers for it and all of them are right and wrong at the same time. Again, with lighting, you get what you pay for and lighting is NOT one of the things I am willing to comprimise. The lights for my tank cost me $1000 for 4 pendandts and ballasts - bulbs were $250 extra, BUT everyone who has seen my tank will tell you two things - 1) There are no actinic lights supplementing my tank and the colors are spectacular becuase of the lighting combination I have chosen.

You can get a system that is cheap for $500 but you'll regret it in the end battling endless algae etc.

Hope that helps,

House

 

[masterswimmer]

I agree wholeheartedly with House.
There are lots of ways to do things right in this hobby. Do your research, TAKE YOUR TIME and spend your money only once.

My way of doing it.....like I said above, only my way, others have done it right there way........I read, and read, and read for one year before I bought any piece of equipment. When I finally bit the bullet, I bought my tank. Over the course of the next year, I bought my RO/DI, lights, skimmer, sump, heaters, powerheads, pumps, etc. By the time I accumulated all the necessary equipment to finally fill the tank, two years had passed. I can honestly say though, I did not, and have not ever had to replace any equipment I initially purchased.

Moral of the story, read, ask questions, research, read more, and most importantly, take your time. Bad things happen very fast in this hobby, good things take time.

swimmer

 

[ryder11211]

Yeah, I hear you guys completely in terms of studying for a long time then buying quality items slowly (and permanently).

I should have thought about the whole bow-front distortion thing.
I was kind of interested in learning and doing some photography on the tank, an added benefit and justification for spending so much money on the thing. Is it pretty much a general consensus that I should then swith to a rectangular tank?

I'm still kinda looking for a little better understanding of the sand bed issue. Does a sandbed make maintanence much greater? also, if the sand just sits on the bottom of the tank, without much movement, how does it really filter the water? Is it that live sand has organisms that filter? If so, does usage of non-live sand just function as a decoration? I saw someone had black sand in their tank, which looked pretty cool.

I wouldnt mind spending some money on the lights, but I do have issues with going really high wattage. Not to preach, but I try to be as conservative as possible with electricity these days. That being said, I would like to stay under 600 watts, and thats basically the deciding factor on how large my tank will be. Well, that and the fact that it needs to fit in my 1BR apt. On that note, I'd also like to know if anyone here has a large 75+ tank in a nyc apartment? I know alot of people here are in Queens and Long Island, but Im interested to know the difficulties of keeping a largish tank in an apartment building.

Anyways that was long enough. thanks for the responses.

 

[masterswimmer]

I should have thought about the whole bow-front distortion thing.
I was kind of interested in learning and doing some photography on the tank, an added benefit and justification for spending so much money on the thing. Is it pretty much a general consensus that I should then swith to a rectangular tank?

I have both a 75 rectangle and a 16 bow. Photographing anything through curved glass is a major challenge. I have no problems with the rectangles (but even that takes some practice and trial and error), but the BF is always presenting distortion issues. Viewing the tank is no problem, and the uniqueness of it is great. It's just the photography issue.

I'm still kinda looking for a little better understanding of the sand bed issue. Does a sandbed make maintanence much greater? also, if the sand just sits on the bottom of the tank, without much movement, how does it really filter the water? Is it that live sand has organisms that filter? If so, does usage of non-live sand just function as a decoration? I saw someone had black sand in their tank, which looked pretty cool.

Sandbeds are a major debateable issue. I would say most people like the appearance of at least a shallow sand bed (SSB). Others like the way a deep sand bed (DSB) looks. Then you have the barebottom crowd (BB).

In order to make a decision you'll need to do a lot of reading. It's important to read articles written by authors who promote and justify the various options available. This way you can make an informed decision. Here's a good start

Personally I use a SSB (2") and a ton of nassarius snails to keep it turned over (the top 1" at least).

The black sand bed that Froggie used is absolutely beautiful. Just be aware, it will take work to keep it looking like that.

That being said, I would like to stay under 600 watts, and thats basically the deciding factor on how large my tank will be. Well, that and the fact that it needs to fit in my 1BR apt. On that note, I'd also like to know if anyone here has a large 75+ tank in a nyc apartment? I know alot of people here are in Queens and Long Island, but Im interested to know the difficulties of keeping a largish tank in an apartment building.

I run 6 x 54w T5's on my 75g tank. Total is 324w. I have kept any coral I want under these lights. They are not MH's. They don't get as hot as MH's. They are also better for shallow tanks, as MH's will have the ability to penetrate deeper into the water (providing you use certain bulbs). Once again, a lot of reading should be done on lighting.

Lots of our club members live in the boro's and maintain tanks 75g and up. It is just very important to remember, the buildings structural makeup will dictate how large you can go safely. Keep in mind, at some time, no matter how careful you are, no mattter what precautions you take, you will have some kind of flood. Prepare for this eventuality and put a flood containment plan in place at the very beginning. Neighbors from below, knocking on your door because water is pouring out of ceiling fixtures won't be fun to address. :irked:

When you're ready to discuss skimmers, there's lots of information to read on that as well.

You seem to be on the right track with your questions. Keep'em comming and hopefully you'll feel comfortable with your choices.

Russ

 

[LeslieS]

Hey Ryder,

I am also a recent tank starter These guys all give great advise!

Having just gone through a tank set up - here are some unsophisticated newb thoughts ;-)

Don't feel like you have to buy everything at once. There are lots of ways to do things. For example, some people do not have sumps or skimmers. (everyone is going to kill me for saying that!!!!)

I did go with a sump and skimmer, but did not buy all my live rock at once. I wasn't sure which kind I wanted, so I bougt half the amount that I should have, and started my tank with that.

Then, I tried out a few pieces of different kinds of rock. I left some space for any really great pieces that I find in the future and rocks that I may buy with corals on them.

It is important to understand how all of the equipment works together before you buy it. For example, if you went without a sump, but want to add one later, is your tank set up for that?

In my case, I have to go very slow with the bio load (adding fish) because I have less rock for filtration. Also, I have to monitor my levels each time I decide to add a new rock in case something on it is dead and causes a mini cycle in my tank.

I guess I am trying to say that you should not feel pressured to get a ton of stuff and do everything 110%. If you do buy equipment/rock, buy the best you can afford, but you don't have to get everything all at once

Good luck and I cannot wait to see how you decide to set it up!