Conflicting Advice, please help.

[scriber17]

Hello everyone,
Newbie here, I've been reading a ton of stuff on the web from various boards and I'm getting quite confused.
I have a 72g Bow that I'd like to convert to a marine. I haven't decided if I want SPS yet, but know I'd definately want LR with Fish and some frogspawn(LPS) and clams. I prefer the colorful stuff that move around.
Lighting: I have read that for a 24" deep tank you need at least 2x250mh to keep the the stuff I want. I've also seen tanks with much less than that with the same coral I'm looking to keep. I currently have a 4x65pc. The problem is twofold, obviously it's gonna cost me an arm and a leg to get a new fixture with 2x250mh and 2x96 actinics(about 850). If i have to get this fixture...I'm probably not going to be able to afford marine. The second issue is; finding a fixture with these specs that will fit over my tank. Unless I go with some custom hood, I'm not going to be able to find a plug and play fixture that will fit on top of the 72g as the bow requires the width to be 12" at most.
Filtration: I have read that canisters and HOB filters(both of which I have) are bad because they dump nitrates back into the tank. I've read about DSB with skimmers and Sumps. As far as I know about the cycle, nitrates will be created no matter what kind of filtration you have. It's just that in sumps you can raise some plants to consume the nitrates and maybe there are animals in DSB that also consume the nitrates. Is this correct? I'd like to know if a sump is necessary? Whats the best setup?
Thanks in advance for any help. Is there a good reef LFS that you can reccomend?

 

[Blue02celi]

Welcome to MR

I am also setting up a 72g. As far as a sump, I would definitely reccomend using one. You will eventually get one if you don't now, a HOB isn't gonna do the job, not on a 72g, and as far as the canister, I've never even thought of going that route, haven't heard of anyone using them.

For lighting, there are a few options for fixtures, think coralife makes one with 2-250's. Another company begins with M, but expensive, I don't think you HAVE to have 250's tho

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Hi there.

Let me tell you some of my personal experiences. Note, this is not recommedation though.

It is said that clams need strong light and thus your 4x65 is not enough but I am lucky enough to have 4 clams doing very well before I sold or trade them out under 4 x 65W and for a long time under 2 x 65(that's the time when I worried about them and decided to let them go to a brighter tank even though there no health issue is visual) Note:I don't keep my tank very conventional and thus may have contributed to relieving the clams from the insufficient light.

My frogspwan thrill under 4x65 but I also noticed after I switched the fixture to another brand it slowed down a lot, so I assume the brand makes a big difference.

Sump/refuge is very good as long as you do it right. I would put the DSB in the sump(remote deep sand bed) if the surface area ratio of the sump vs the display is proper. Do a search in the web you may be able to find the ratio.

Ohh most importantly-HAPPY NEW YEAR. Omitted earlier-still feeling the effects of hang over.:party: :groupflip :birthday:

 

[reefman]

I dont think anyone that have just converted to a reef should be keeping any sps or clams no matter what the conditions are. Sump will make things easier to manage. plants in the sump r usually macroalgea. canister filters n hob r not our filters of choice for a 72 gal. nitrates, n many other elements r consistently create in a reef. the trick is to keep it to a bare min.
Welcome to MR.:birthday:

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I am gonna run this buy you see if you like it.

Keep the PC lighting for now and save your money. Gut the current tank that you have and clean it well. Have you ever added any copper type medication to that tank? If so Inverts may not survive.

Have the tank drilled and set up an overflow system. get the biggest possible sump possible.

In that sump set up a fuge and put a skimmer. Aqua C urchin should be ok for now.

Buy an RO/DI unit and some salt.

Switch the tank over to marine by putting substrate in the tank if wanted (note do not use crushed coral use sand if you want a substrate)

Start making RO/DI water and add it to the tank with no salt. Fill the tank 2/3's of the way.

Start mixing in the salt and get it up to the correct salinity and add your live rock.

Then top off the tank with salt water made from buckets. Get the sump filled as well and circulating and filtering. Let that tank cycle for about a month.

Over the time period of the month while you are testing you water save some cash. and get ready to purchase your fish and see how you do with a fish only with live rock tank.

Some soft corals will be ok with that pc light but it will be a crap shoot so after you get your F/O tank set up save up for some good lighting and sell your PC light here and buy some nice frags.

SPS and Clams should only be added to an established tank or you are only dooming them to death, and I am speaking from experience.

Hope this helps

 

[masterswimmer]

Greetings scriber. Welcome to MR and Happy New Year.

As you progress in this hobby, you'll find there is a lot of information and various ways to do things right. What works for one person might not work for someone else.

You've gotten some good things going on already. You're reading, asking questions and doing your research BEFORE you buy anything. Most people don't do that and wind up trying to correct the issues they created.

Chief gave you some good information to get you started. I only disagree with one point. Filling the tank with RO/DI then adding the salt to the tank (that has sand in it already) is not my way of doing it. I find that when mixing a new batch of saltwater I have to create an excessive amount of turbulence in the water to get the salt to dissolve. If you do this and have sand in the tank already you'll create a sandstorm of epic proportions. I prefer the method of mixing the salt into my RO/DI water outside of the tank. JMO

Good luck and keep asking questions. Everyone here has an opinion and most are willing to share them :biggrin:

swimmer

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Good point Russ, I guess that's why with my setup I had to wait a day for the water to clear :lol2:

 

[masterswimmer]

Good point Russ, I guess that's why with my setup I had to wait a day for the water to clear :lol2:

:hug: I still learn something new in this hobby every day

R

 

[scriber17]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Welcome to MR

For lighting, there are a few options for fixtures, think coralife makes one with 2-250's. Another company begins with M, but expensive, I don't think you HAVE to have 250's tho

Blue02celi;
I've looked at the coralife fixtures and they are too wide...15", not to mention that the fixture is over $800. Regarding whether or not you have to get 250w; I'm usually of the school of buy once even if it's more expensive. Additionally, I don't want my coral to just survive, I want them to flourish.

Hi there.

Let me tell you some of my personal experiences. Note, this is not recommedation though.

It is said that clams need strong light and thus your 4x65 is not enough but I am lucky enough to have 4 clams doing very well before I sold or trade them out under 4 x 65W and for a long time under 2 x 65(that's the time when I worried about them and decided to let them go to a brighter tank even though there no health issue is visual) Note:I don't keep my tank very conventional and thus may have contributed to relieving the clams from the insufficient light.

My frogspwan thrill under 4x65 but I also noticed after I switched the fixture to another brand it slowed down a lot, so I assume the brand makes a big difference.

Sump/refuge is very good as long as you do it right. I would put the DSB in the sump(remote deep sand bed) if the surface area ratio of the sump vs the display is proper. Do a search in the web you may be able to find the ratio.

Ohh most importantly-HAPPY NEW YEAR. Omitted earlier-still feeling the effects of hang over.:party: :groupflip :birthday:

WingoAgency;
Thanks for sharing your experiences; when you say you don't have a conventional tank...what do you mean?

I dont think anyone that have just converted to a reef should be keeping any sps or clams no matter what the conditions are. Sump will make things easier to manage. plants in the sump r usually macroalgea. canister filters n hob r not our filters of choice for a 72 gal. nitrates, n many other elements r consistently create in a reef. the trick is to keep it to a bare min.
Welcome to MR.:birthday:

reefman;
I don't plan on adding coral until everything is stable. The concensus seems to be that a sump is a good idea. Does anyone have suggestions on which to get?

I am gonna run this buy you see if you like it.

Keep the PC lighting for now and save your money. Gut the current tank that you have and clean it well. Have you ever added any copper type medication to that tank? If so Inverts may not survive.

Have the tank drilled and set up an overflow system. get the biggest possible sump possible.

In that sump set up a fuge and put a skimmer. Aqua C urchin should be ok for now.

Buy an RO/DI unit and some salt.

Switch the tank over to marine by putting substrate in the tank if wanted (note do not use crushed coral use sand if you want a substrate)

Start making RO/DI water and add it to the tank with no salt. Fill the tank 2/3's of the way.

Start mixing in the salt and get it up to the correct salinity and add your live rock.

Then top off the tank with salt water made from buckets. Get the sump filled as well and circulating and filtering. Let that tank cycle for about a month.

Over the time period of the month while you are testing you water save some cash. and get ready to purchase your fish and see how you do with a fish only with live rock tank.

Some soft corals will be ok with that pc light but it will be a crap shoot so after you get your F/O tank set up save up for some good lighting and sell your PC light here and buy some nice frags.

SPS and Clams should only be added to an established tank or you are only dooming them to death, and I am speaking from experience.

Hope this helps

Chiefmcfuz;
Thanks for your detailed response, I will get a ro/di unit. Any suggestions on a particular make or model and where to get it?

Greetings scriber. Welcome to MR and Happy New Year.

As you progress in this hobby, you'll find there is a lot of information and various ways to do things right. What works for one person might not work for someone else.

You've gotten some good things going on already. You're reading, asking questions and doing your research BEFORE you buy anything. Most people don't do that and wind up trying to correct the issues they created.

Chief gave you some good information to get you started. I only disagree with one point. Filling the tank with RO/DI then adding the salt to the tank (that has sand in it already) is not my way of doing it. I find that when mixing a new batch of saltwater I have to create an excessive amount of turbulence in the water to get the salt to dissolve. If you do this and have sand in the tank already you'll create a sandstorm of epic proportions. I prefer the method of mixing the salt into my RO/DI water outside of the tank. JMO

Good luck and keep asking questions. Everyone here has an opinion and most are willing to share them :biggrin:

swimmer

masterswimmer;
Can you clarify whether a DSB will process nitrates?

Additionally, can anyone reccomend a source for Kaelini live rock? It seems most people really like it.

Again thank you all and sorry for the long post.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I would say make your own sump from an inexpensive glass tank would be great because it's a lot of fun DIY stuffs. Plus it also lets you understand more about how each equipment or part of the system works together.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

For any of your equipment or livestock needs I reccomend checking out any one of our registered vendors or sponsors, Buckeye Field supply sells RO/DI units, good ones too!. Lives rock I can reccomend Deepwater Extreme and House of Fish here, I have bought livestock from them and can attest to their quality. Also I have the aqualight pro on my 55 and all i needed to do to get it to fit the top of the tank was to invert the legs. If you are looking at the light from the side the legs sit at this angle \ / instead of / \ like it would sit on your 72. It came off of a 75 g tank and the guy who I bought it from had nothing but success with the light.

Also I like to have a DSB in my fuge but a shallow SB in my tank if that helps you out.

 

[Blue02celi]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
Blue02celi;
I've looked at the coralife fixtures and they are too wide...15" not to mention that the fixture is over $800. Regarding whether or not you have to get 250w; I'm usually of the school of buy once even if it's more expensive. Additionally, I don't want my coral to just survive, I want them to flourish.

Nice save, I didnt pay attention to the width of the lights I've been looking at because I thought the tank was 18" at the ends when its only 13" and 18" in the center... so keep me posted as to what you use lol someone told me they set up a shelf over their tank (craig?), and had pendants hanging under the shelf so that they didnt have to hang them from the ceiling. the other option would be a canopy, which I really dont want to get. I really wanted one of those all in one sets with legs... Chief- would inverting the legs work on a BF?

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Inverting the legs would work no problem on a bow front, My entire 55 is only 13" wide front to back and like I said no problems

 

[Blue02celi]

ah ok I got it, sorry didnt see where it said from the side, not from the front, which wouldnt help with width, but with lenght lol

 

[masterswimmer]

masterswimmer;
Can you clarify whether a DSB will process nitrates?

Additionally, can anyone reccomend a source for Kaelini live rock? It seems most people really like it.

Just like Chief, I like a remote DSB. I have about 2.5" in my display, but about 5" in my fuge. If there is ever an issue where the DSB fails, you can take it off line and remove it without crashing your tank.

Again, like Chief, I also like House of Fish for LR :Up_to_som (sorry, you asked )

swimmer

 

[joseney21]

welcome to MR scriber!!! for lighting i would suggest t5 if youre not planning to go big on the sps, MH is better though. i have some sps in my tank and all is doing well and growing. i currently run 4 54w t5 over a 90g (DIY retro= $280). only problem is that my anemone and my friends anemone (which is no longer in the tank) looks for shade from the t5 no matter what depth its at in the tank, this may have something to do with the bulbs. everything else in the tank likes the light softies, lps and sps (including my frogspawn). i'll be switching to 2X250w MH & 2X110 VHO soon though (also a DIY retro). if i were in your shoes i'd make a custom hood and go with the retro just to have a hood covering the entire tank.

 

[ellebelle]

I have a 29g tank which is 3 inches shorter than the 72 bow w/ 65w PC lights and I've had no problems keeping any LPS or soft corals. When you get the LPS, just make sure you research and position those that want a little more light near the top of the tank. I'm even holding some SPS corals for Eric (digitalreefer) right now, and his cap actually colored up in my tank. I just put them up as high as I possibly could. I don't really intend to keep SPS corals, but it's nice to know that I could have some of the ones that are easier to keep if I wanted. I really would like a clam as well, but after doing a lot of research, I've decided against it unless I upgrade my lights.

 

[scriber17]

Thanks for everyone advice.
I think that I will stick with my PC's for now and save up for the MH's.
After reading a ton more on filtration, I'm going to go with LR and Skimmer for now; and add a sump later if necessary.
What skimmer is effective and easy to use?
I also have read that you can get playsand from homedepot but I can't seem to find the thread on how to distinguish the good sand vs bad.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Scrib it's easy to drill the tank, some people here will do it for beer . I would do that, and then buy a tank from petland ( they are cheap enough ) and make the sump that way, put your skimmer in the sump area and keep it all out of your sight.

 

[ellebelle]

I highly recommend the sump. Brett (bad_coffee) drilled my tank for a beer and I have a nice 10 gallon sump where I put all of my ugly equipment to keep my tank looking nice and pretty. Also, having a sump makes it really easy to do top off and tests and things without disturbing all of your livestock by contantly putting your hands in the display.