What's going on with my reef?

[Quicksilver1972]

It's been going great until,......Friday we purchased some emerald crabs(tell me now if that was a STUPID IDEA???)But if it was why, did my LFS not tell me this?? Well anyway's Saturday morning woke up and one of our cleaner shrimp(skunk), was dead, and this morning(sunday) my other sleaner shrimp had shed over night and now this afternoon is not doing well so we removed him to a hospital tank, the only other thing we did was supplement some kent garlic in their brine shrimp one drop on Friday night, 1st time we've done this also, PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!

 

[trido]

To better understand the cause we will need to know your water parameters. Ammonia, nitrates,calcium, etc. Also when was the last time you did a water change? Are you adding any supplements to the tank?
Im not an old pro but do believe that shrimps will molt after sudden parameter changes. If the iodine is lacking it could kill them.

 

[Quicksilver1972]

Here's what I can tell you, we did a water change Thursday night, it was 4 gallons (we have a 46 gallon bowfront), PH 8.3, Amonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate less then 5ppm, don't know what my calcium is don't have the means to test it yet, SG is 1.023, and temp is 78, not adding any other supplements, we had the shrimp for about a month with no problems. And also we noticed that some of our small polyps are vanishing, had about ten now down to 2.

 

[Quicksilver1972]

Just talked to our LFS, told them everything, said our amonia could possibly be the problem, so we did a 5 gallon water change, and plan to do more every other day till it reaches zero, thanks for the replies.
Can you recommend a better kit than:...Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, INC. (Saltwater master liquid test kit)? Because I think the range is to broad on this particualar kit, and want something closer.

 

[trido]

Can you recommend a better kit than:...Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, INC. (Saltwater master liquid test kit)? Because I think the range is to broad on this particualar kit, and want something closer.

You mean Doc wellfish? Salifert is one of the most dependable so I hear. Kinda pricey though. I have a Red Sea Kit (package with six different tests) and my ammonia readings have been 0.25 for three months.
I am pretty sure they are wrong as my corals and fish are thriving.

How often have you been doing water changes? What kind of polyps are dissapearing. Are they just vanishing or has the whole colony been looking pi$$ed lately? How long has your tank been up and what kind of live stock do you have?

I have a hard time believeing that introducing the two crabs has anything to do with your death. As I said. I am a newb and dont know much. I am still led to believe that you are lacking Iodine in the water.

 

[Quicksilver1972]

Been doing 1-2, 4 gallon water changes weekly, not forsure on what kinda polyps they are, they came on an aquacultured rock with our green mushrooms, they looked fine but then Saturday morning we noticed like 4-5 missing?? As far as the Iodine, how can I test it and what method should use to replenish it? Tanks been running 4 months or so.

We have:

46 Gallon Bow front
61 pounds of LR
50 pounds of sand
Skillter
250 powerhead
CF Lighting

Corals-
Green Mushrooms
Toad Stool Leather
Zoanthids
Bubble Coral

Live Stock-
2- Ocellaris Clowns
2- Purple Firefish
1-Firefish
2- Yellow Clown Gobies
1-Blue Hippo Tang

Inverts-
Did have 2- Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
4- Turbo Snails
4- Sand Snails
1- Bumble Bee Snail
2- Emerald Crabs
1- Red Star

And Hitchhiker's ofcourse!

Thanks for the info about the test kit's will be checking on them asap!!

 

[trido]

I dont believe there is a test kit for iodine. If you have been doing regular water changes most of your trace minerals should be getting replenished. Ive been waiting for one of the regulars that know soooo much more than I to chime in and tell me I'm wrong but the forums have been quiet today.
Im still at a loss as to your missing polyps. Maybe a bad hithchiker.

 

[Quicksilver1972]

Yeah we are at a lost also, we just went and checked on thing's, and now our Firefish is missing part of his dorsil fin???And it was there a couple of hours ago, (not fin rot) it is cut off halfway. :?: We removed an Emerald crab, got one more in there, put him in our quarntine tank until we figure out what is going on!!! Been watching for the other one, and as far as a bad hitchiker, we've been on the look out, haven't seen anything, just have had problems since Fridayish, when we added the Emerald crabs, so we are back tracking to that point???? :?:

 

[trido]

IM still waiting for an old timer so to speak to give some input...........Where is everybody?

 

[Meloco14]

IME emerald crabs have been perfectly safe, but I have heard stories of bad ones. But there is also a chance that you have a bad hitchhiker that you don't know about yet. If you have time check the tank with a flashlight at night and see what you can see. Missing polyps suggests something eating it. If they were simply dying off you would see them recede and slowly die over a few days or a week. Seachem makes an iodine test kit to check that. But usually regular water changes are enough to keep iodine levels up. Your shrimp may have been casualties to the ammonia. I believe inverts like shrimp are particularly susceptible to ammonia and nitrite levels. But it may be iodine, as mentioned, or a bad hitchhiker. You should try to get an alkalinity and calcium test kit. Stablility in those two areas are key to a successful reef. Not to mention that proper levels of those two items will help your bubble coral grow. I would also recommend a better skimmer. You have a pretty heavy fish load on that tank and the skilter really doesn't do much. I can pretty much guarantee that's why you're having ammonia problems. But getting back to your shrimp deaths it's hard to say what the specific cause is, but at this point im leaning toward either water quality or an unseen hitchhiker. As far as your firefish losing its fin, something had to have bitten it off. Have you noticed any aggression between the 3 firefish? From what I have heard, firefish do not get along with eachother unless they are a mated pair, and maybe having 3 in that small of a tank is causing aggression issues. Something like a crab or shrimp could potentially cut its fin off, but it would have to be pretty fast to catch it, or it would have to catch it sleeping. Anyway good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Anonymous]

I recommend Salifert test kit

 

[Quicksilver1972]

We were kinda worried about the skillter when we bought it, but in hindsight that was a mistake, barely collects anything!! (Looking for something more suitable now?????) Have noticed a little aggression between the firefish, well one of the purple firefish is a little territorial. As far as checking with a flashlight at night been doing that for quite some time, haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. The one crab is still in quarnatine tank, don't know if I should get out the other, or put this one back in?? Nothing else went wrong today, but still up in the air about what is going on! We will be purchasing some more test kits, so we can get a better grasp on what our water reading's are. Thanks for all the help and ideas/info!! We will keep you updated!

 

[Anonymous]

Been doing 1-2, 4 gallon water changes weekly, not forsure on what kinda polyps they are, they came on an aquacultured rock with our green mushrooms, they looked fine but then Saturday morning we noticed like 4-5 missing?? As far as the Iodine, how can I test it and what method should use to replenish it? Tanks been running 4 months or so.

We have:

46 Gallon Bow front
61 pounds of LR
50 pounds of sand
Skillter
250 powerhead
CF Lighting

Corals-
Green Mushrooms
Toad Stool Leather
Zoanthids
Bubble Coral

Live Stock-
2- Ocellaris Clowns
2- Purple Firefish
1-Firefish
2- Yellow Clown Gobies
1-Blue Hippo Tang

Inverts-
Did have 2- Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
4- Turbo Snails
4- Sand Snails
1- Bumble Bee Snail
2- Emerald Crabs
1- Red Star

And Hitchhiker's ofcourse!

Thanks for the info about the test kit's will be checking on them asap!!

You have:

Way too little flow in the tank. Adding anothe rpowerhead will help.

I dont even know what a skillter is, but it sounds like a media-type filtration system, which in turn will only give you problems down the road with nitrates, phosphates and other pH problems. Get rid of it.

You have 8 fish in a 46, which some would consider overstocked. This will in trun add to keeping water parameters steady in a marine tank.

Testing for iodine is iffy at best. i have used 3 different tests over the years, and none are very accurate. If you do regular water changes (around 20% or so per week give or take depending on what you feel is comfortable...I would reccomend 20% weekly based on your livestock and lack of skimmer) the iodine is typically replaced.

Emerald crabs, are usually pretty peaceful, but have heard about them nipping corals. I neve rhad problems with my 3.

Doing a water change of less then 10% like you have been doing is slightly beneficial. You need to do a bit more exchange.

In addition, you must get an alkalinity and calcium test kit. It is a must for testing your buffering.

Speaking of water changes, are you mixing your change out water for minimum 24 hrs? VERY important to do so.

Your sg should also be closer to 1.025

 

[Quicksilver1972]

Ok, its been a week or two we have been doing a 15% water change and have had no more losses also We removed the air restrictor on the skimmer side of the skilter so that more micro bubbles can be formed and we are now collecting much more waste,although we still think it isn't what it should be. Has anyone ever used a visi-jet skimmer and are they any good. They are on the cheap side and we asume they would not be any better than what we have. Any sugestions on a good hang on style skimmer would be great. Still havent got a chance to get more tast kits but I'm going to take a sample of our water to the LFS and have it tested today to see what our ca,iodine, and general hardness are.For a week we were buying water from the local Meijer because it was R/O water it tested worse than my tap water. went back to my tap untill we can get a R/O D/I system in house

.
Thanks for all the help!

 

[jumpincactus]

here is a cut and paste I found while researching you dilemma. From what I can see for the most part Emerald crabs are reef safe....(provided they have enough to eat) They are classified as an oppurtunistic feeder meaning if they dont have enough goodies to keep them occupied they will turn to corals and inverts. At the bottom of this post I will paste the link to a site that you can search different critters to get the skinny before you place them in your tank.

From what I am seeing and I am no expert..... Is a lot of beginners, including myself the first time around place things in thier tanks without doing the homework. While most LFS are fairly knowledgable I personally do not rely on them totally. I still do my own research and then draw a conclusion.. ,,,,,,,,,,,,heres the quote,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "The hardy Emerald Crab, also known as Emerald Mithrax Crab or Emerald Mythrax Crab, has a shiny green, flat, compact body and hairy legs.

It requires a mature aquarium with plenty of rock work and hiding places. The Emerald Crab eats algae and various types of meaty items it can scavenge. It can be harmful to small fish, but unlike many other animals, it will eat bubble algae and is useful for cleaning tanks of this potential problem. (They are an opportunistic feeder, and if enough food is not available to them, they may turn to supplementing their diet with corals or invertebrates. )"

If there is insufficient algae, their diet should be supplemented with dried seaweed, chopped meaty items or a quality pellet food.


Here is the link to the site I spoke about .......

http://www.desertcoralaquatics.com/esto ... od_11.html

 

[cindre2000]

I agree with Meloco14. IME emerald crabs are reef safe except for a small percentage. Also, from what i have read firefish kill each other off unless they are a mated pair, though it may take a little while. Of course there are always exceptions. I also believe that tangs usually need much large tanks that a 46 bow; but if he is small and doing ok right now...

*tangent alert*

As for hang on back skimmers; I distrust them. Mainly because I bought a very cheap worthless one and it overflowed many times, untill I just stopped using it. You might want to consider a sump. This would mean a HOB overflow which I am also not fond of since it will fail as soon as you leave for the weekend or on a vacation. I have only ever gotten drilled tanks and after I learned about the importance of snail guards, my tanks have never flooded.

You could wait to when you upgrade your tank (it is inevitable!!!) to get a predrilled tank and a sump (with an ASM skimmer *hint* *hint*). Of if you want to prolong the life of your tank (and want a sump but do not want a HOB skimmer, or HOB overflow); you could empty your tank and put every thing into some brute trashcans (2- 32 gallons) and take the tank to be drilled at your local fish store. Then you can build an overflow and voula! you have a drilled tank and can add another 20 gallons to your tank in the form of a sump and can hide all that ugly equipment.

*end of tangent*

As for you ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc. Most LFS will test your water for free, have you brought some water to them? Finally, i agree with the hitchhiker theory with the polyps. Use a flashlight at night (possibly a red light).

 

[Rlumenator]

I put (3) firefish in my 160- figuring it was big enough. The two paired off to one side, and all was well after the initial saber rattling. Well, after 2 months , just a couple of days ago, my lone firefishes dorsal went missing, and now the other two come over and harass him. I have tried to remove the lone one without success. I will prob. lose him- so keep an eye out, and remove it to safety if you can. (I was going to let mine heal, then give it to the lfs.) Good luck, Dawn.

 

[torombolo]

Quicksilver1972, get rid of that skilter, I have one on my 20gal and its no good, I had to modify it with an air pump for it to skim some, and still I have to clean or change the filter media so I wont have my Nitrates go sky high.

My NEWBIE .2¢

 

[Anonymous]

the best HOB skimmer is a Aqua C Remora.

 

[Quicksilver1972]

Well...........I think we now have found the mean little #?&%^*! responsible for the whole problem we have been having! Its a hitchhiker crab seen him last night. Not sure the type he is and haven't seen him long enough to snap a pic although here is what he looks like.The main part of his shell is white with black stripes rough texture the legs are short and not hairy there apears to be white dots or mabe even bands on them in the joint areas. I have looked all over the web havn't seen anything like it yet. any ideas?I haven't removed him yet any one have a good way to do it without tearing up the rockwork?


Tom