another hair algae thread

[Gaffes]

I've been reading the other threads, and checking wetwebmedia.com to try and diagnose my hair algae problem. Can any of you offer any suggestions?

Here is the deal:

80g
FOWLR
only one fish, a 3" undulated triggerfish
I feed one cube of formula one a day or less
two tunze 6100s, so lots of flow
about 70 pounds of liverock
powercompacts (one full spectrum, one actinic)
only filtration is a remora pro with mag 3 pump - I clean it daily

I want to starve the algae by finding the source of nutrients. I used to have a thin layer of crushed coral, but removed it because it seemed like it was trapping alot detritus. (The live rock is very active and there was alot of detritus) After removing it the amount of detritus went down, but this was only a few days ago so the longer term effects are not yet known.

The other thing I am wondering about is my water. I live in San Francisco, which is supposed to have decent water for aquariums. (Opinions?)
I keep fresh water in a rubbermaid with a powerhead for about a week, then mix several hours before changing water. I change 5-10 gallons a week.

I finally got some Salifert test kits, and here are my results:

Fresh mixed water from rubbermaid: Phosphate 0.1ppm, and Nitrates 17ppm (ppm = mg/L)

Water drawn from tank: Phosphate 1.2ppm , and Nitrates 68ppm (ppm = mg/L)

I have been removing alot of algae by hand since the substrate removal, and am hoping that I can solve this problem soon.

One final question: Would it make sense to leave alot of hair algae on the back wall of the tank? My idea is that it might use up the nutrients in the tank making it less likely for algae to grow elsewhere, like on the liverock. Or is this a bad idea?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[ChrisRD]

At this point a good grazer might have been all you needed to wipe it out but your options are pretty limited with that trigger in there. A tang might be able to hold its own against the trigger and graze the algae down but your tank is bit on the small side for most species.

Your source water may well be contributing to the issue. Using purified water would help. You may start to see results now that you removed the substrate but it will take some time for the effects to show.

Letting the hair algae grow on the back wall would be fine if you don't mind looking at it but personally I wouldn't be able to stand it! :wink:

 

[Gaffes]

Yeah, I don't think I can add anything. Mr. Undulatus has been in there by himself for more than six months, so I think he would attack any new introductions...

How do my readings on my source water look?

 

[Anonymous]

Gaffes - I think you would be better off with a RO system then test you water again. If you are still reading phosphates then add a DI filter.

Also, i would do frequent 20gallon WC's for a few weeks to tget your PO4 down to 0. Keep yanking the hair algae out. Keep blasting the LR with a tukey baster or a powerhead weekly to keep the detritus from collecting and breaking down.
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[ChrisRD]

I agree with Rob. You could also use something like Phosban to get your in-tank phosphate levels down.

Your current source water is definitely contributing to the problem as every time you topoff evaporation you're adding additional phosphates and nitrates into the system.

 

[Gaffes]

Your current source water is definitely contributing to the problem as every time you topoff evaporation you're adding additional phosphates and nitrates into the system.

Are the levels in my source water really that bad? (Phosphate 0.1ppm, and Nitrates 17ppm (ppm = mg/L)

 

[ChrisRD]

IMO it's bad, yes. I wouldn't be using that water in one of my tanks. I'd get an RO/DI unit.

Keep in mind that whatever you're adding into the system via topoff water that's not being exported at least as quickly as it's being added will accumulate. There are various ways to export phosphates, like protein skimmers, GFOs (Phosban, Rowaphos, etc.), algae filters (ie. refugium w/macro algaes, etc.) and grazing animals (that consume algae as it grows thereby converting the bound nutrients into a skimmable form) but to keep nutrient levels in check, it's necessary to minimize the inputs as well (ie. don't use source water with significant phosphate levels :wink: ).

Considering a good target phosphate level for a reef aquarium is 0.03 PPM or lower, your in-tank level of 1.2 PPM is very high. A level of 0.10 PPM is bad and anything 0.25 PPM or higher can be problematic to the point of retarding coral growth, serious nuisance algae problems, etc.

Nitrates are far less critical, but it's not difficult to maintain undetectable (at least on most hobby test kits) levels in modern reef aquariums if your system is setup and maintained properly and stocking levels are reasonable.

JMO & HTH

 

[jdeets]

IMO nitrates at 17ppm in source water is problematic. That reduces the nutrient export effect of your water changes.

Since you have FOWLR nitrate levels are not as critical as with a reef system, but for reference, my nitrates are usually around 2.5 ppm in my reef system. I do use RO/DI water for all water changes.

I would certainly look into finding a source of purified water for water changes.

HTH

 

[Omni2226]

Well I could care less about looks so I never clean the back and sides of any tanks. I figure if it aint hurting the fish live and let live.

That being said I cant remeber the last time I had problems with hair alga.
Once it gets to going in the corners it tends to fade away everywhere else.
And take a look at any body of water wether its pond lake or ocean. Green alga is everywhere and a lot of critters live in/on/around it and are themselves food for a myriad of other critters.

Guess what Im saying is if green stuff dont bother ya let it grow in the back corners. When creepy crawlies come out of it your Trigger can play tag with em

 

[ChrisRD]

I skimmed the old part of this thread quickly when it popped back up and overlooked the fact that you have a FOWLR - sorry. I responded thinking this is a reef tank.

That said, I prefer to run an FO tank like a reef (sans the intense lighting) so my response wouldn't change much (although phosphate/nitrate levels are not as much of a concern in a fish only system).

 

[Gaffes]

Thanks for all of the help everyone.

I was able to lower the nutrient levels in my source water. Something I overlooked was that the rubbermaid I was using to store the water in had a cracked lid. My theory is that since the water was evaporating somewhat, it cause a rise in the nutrient level since they were not evaporating out - just the pure water. So I think with the rnew rubbermaid I will have better water quality.

One other variable that might be leading to the alge is that the tank gets a fair amount of sunlight during the day. I can block the sun, but I didn't think this would be a problem since reef tanks usually use full spectrum bright lighting anyways. I figure, if anything this would be a good thing. Am I correct here? I notice that the afternoon sunlight does not cause an temperature fluctuation.

What do you think?

 

[tazdevil]

SUnlight can be a large contributer to this. Your PC lighting may even be more intense than you really need for a FOWLR. You might be better off with only the standard cheapo light that comes with the tank.

 

[fishaddict]

Sunlight and phosphates will help algae grow and grow and grow some more.

 

[Gaffes]

Thanks for all of the help so far everyone.

I made the plunge and bought a RO/DI unit, and have been making RO/DI water and doing frequent changes. I am also using the RO/DI for topoff using my LiterMiter and Kalk Reactor.

The hair algae hasn't subsided yet, but here are my current water parameters:

PH: 7.7
Alk: 5.9dKH, 2.11meq/L
Po4: 0.0
No3: 0.0
Ca: 500+

Much better than before, no? The only thing that concerns me are the Alk and Calcium readings. (I am studying this now)

I put the Calcium at 500+ because it was over the limit of my Salifert test kit - I even tested twice to be sure. Is this OK since my Alk isn't taht high? Or am I in danger of a snowstorm or other issues?

Thanks for an help. I am trying to check other sources to learn more about this stuff...

 

[Anonymous]

Keep your lights off! Turn them on only for your viewing pleasure! If you have no corals, there's no reason why you should have the light on other than for your viewing sake.

 

[ChrisRD]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Alk is a bit low and the Ca is high but a couple of water changes should put that right.

Although I agree that cutting the photoperiod a bit could help speed the process of getting the hair algae under control, if there are fish in the tank, personally, I wouldn't keep the lights off completely.

IME if you keep up with good husbandry practices and have something grazing on the algae it will subside in time. In this case you might have to be the "grazer" since most critters won't be safe with your trigger (ie. you may have to pull the stuff by hand and/or scrub the rockwork).