another newbie

[fishfanatic1985]

well i've been keeping freshwater tanks for quite some time and feel that i am ready to move up to my goal which is a saltwater tank. I've heard many things on what to get, some say start off small while others say start off with nothing less than a 60 gallon. some say that a protien skimmer is needed right away while others say it's not necessary. just realy confused on the info that i've been getting so if anyone can clear things up for me and fill me in on a decent beginners equipment list it would be realy helpful.

Thanks
Jon

 

[Anonymous]

Fisrt off

:welcome:

In my opinion a good skimmer makes keeping a reef much easier.

For tank size I would get the largest you can afford to purchase and maintian. IMO a 75gal is a good starter size.

As far as equipment, some depends on what you want to keep. My thought is to by good gear the first time. It would be better if you have specific questions.

 

[bjoiner]

Hi FishFanatic. Welcome!

I too started off with freshwater. I always had in mind that Saltwater tanks were hard to keep and very expensive. I was pleasantly suprised that both were untrue. (granted, it does depend on what you want - they can be difficult and expensive, but a fish-only saltwater tank isn't a whole lot more than a fish-only freshwater)

My first saltwater tank was a 20 gallon. There are a number of disadvantages to a tank this size. I'm finding that I really need to stay on top of topping off the water and that water changes are more frequent. Plus you can only put so many fish in. :-(

So what about a protein skimmer? The protein skimmer removes dissolved particles from the water before they have the chance to decompose and turn into ammonia -> nitrites -> nitrates. As opposed to a common mechanical filter where the "junk" stays in the filter untill you clean it, the protein skimmer gets the debris out of your tank (and into a collection cup). A definite advantage. My advice, don't skimp on this equipment. It will make your life a whole lot easier - and your fish a whole lot happier.

If you are cycling your tank, you probably don't need/want to add a protein skimmer because you want ammonia to build so that the bacteria can feed. But make sure your skimmer is working (and that ammonia, nitrites are at 0) before you add any livestock (with maybe the exception of the fish to start the cycle, if you choose to go that route).

I do have a regular filter in my tank. In theory, if my skimmer worked better I could remove it because I have enough live rock for the bacteria to live on that I don't really need more. But alas, I have a cheap skimmer that doesn't remove enough stuff to keep up so I need to filter out debris with a filter pad.

Here's what I have in my first fish-only tank:

Equipment
* 20 gallon tank
* Prism Skimmer (this has some issues, I'm looking to replace it with something else.)
* AquaClear Filter.
* Heater
* Live Sand
* Live Rock

Fish
* Blue Damsel
* Fake Clown Fish (very entertaining to watch)
* 2 Green Chromis (their color is briliant after you feed them)


BTW, salt water fish have so much more character than freshwater!*
*(yep, probably someone will flame me for saying this!)

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Jon,
:welcome:

Yes, you can and will hear conflicting advice an awful lot when it comes to marine/reef keeping.

What it comes down to ultimately though, is what do YOU want in a tank?

Do you want just fish?
Or do you want to keep corals too?

Those are your biggest two choices in just starting out. And, if you're like most, you're probably thinking, "Well, fish at first, then corals later."

And thats perfectly fine, but just starting into it... it would be wise to take some time and plan well ahead.

So... - Without going into a long list of what *I* think are good do's and don'ts, what kind of tank are you thinking of setting up? - Fish only, corals only, fish and corals?

Also.. - Keeping in mind what kind of corals you might want is a good idea too. - Like fish, not all of them get along very well.

So how 'bout it? - What would you like to do?

Norm

 

[SnowManSnow]

great hobby!

welcome!

b

 

[fishfanatic1985]

well I wanted to keep a reef tank with some non to semi aggressive fish (I love the look of triggers but i think it may be too dangerous to start off with). I was thinking of mushroom coral, possibly a sponge or two, a colorful anemone, clowns, tangs, surgeons, a chocolate chip starfish, a cleaner shrimp (love watching them clean fish), and maybe a harlequin shrimp. i most likely won't start off with all of this just maybe some coral, the cleaner shrimp and a few fish.

thanks for all the quick replies

Jon

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds good. - You'll want a large tank for tangs, its amazing how quickly they grow.

When it comes to skimmer or no skimmer, generally its easier to run with one than without. But yes, it can be done without running one.

 

[Anonymous]

I would really take a second look at the Harlequin shrimp. They only eat the feet off of live starfish.

 

[trigger0214]

..and hold (way) off on the anenome. Until you get your feet wet - so to speak.

 

[fishfanatic1985]

what size tank is recomended to start off a reef tank? one fish that i realy want that i didn't mention was a moorish idol fish (some may know this as a sailfin). I've decided on getting the protien skimmer and i've been looking at about a 40 gallon tank. does that seem too small?

 

[trigger0214]

40 gallon breeders are nice tanks - as they are wide and fairly shallow....are you planning un running a sump underneath the tank? This isi a good way to add some extra capicity and a nice place to put skimmers and such.

 

[Anonymous]

A 40 breeder is a nice tank. Check on the Morish Idol. They tend to be difficult to keep and do not ship well.

 

[ChrisRD]

I recommend browsing our beginner FAQ and recommended reading list in the library and getting a good intro book. Something like The Conscientious Marine Aquarist would be a good choice. Also, do some searches/research here to get an idea of what the species needs are that you're considering keeping. That should give you some idea of the type of setup/budget required for certain animals.

I agree that the 40 gallon is a nice size to start with, however, based on some of the fish you're considering a 40 gallon tank would be way too small IMO. If you're seriously considering multiple tangs you should be shopping in the 6' long / 200 gallon range IMO. If the 40 gallon is what appears to fit your budget than you should start focusing on smaller fish.

As Waz mentioned, the Moorish Idol is not a good idea. They are notoriously difficult to maintain in captivity and have a poor survival record. There are some similar looking Bannerfish (Heniochus sp.) that would make a much better alternative. Unfortunately, none of these fish are really appropriate for a 40 gallon tank - you'd need something larger.

I second the advise to hold-off on an anemone. They require strong lighting and good, stable water parameters. They're best left for later when you have more experience.

Also, the chocolate chip star is predatory and not considered reef safe (they will eat corals and even small, sleeping fish).

I also recommend against the Harlequin shrimp as well - as Waz said, their natural diet is starfish (not very convenient to provide).

Sorry to come-off like we're raining on your parade - there really are a lot of cool things you can keep in a 40 gallon. It's just that setting-up, stocking and maintaining a successful reef tank requires a bit of planning which is part of what we're here for - to help with these questions. :wink:

JMO & HTH

 

[fishfanatic1985]

I think i worded things kinf of wrong, sorry i have a tendancy to do that. I was not planning on just going out and buying all these fish at once it was just something i wanted to work up to, I understand that the moorish idol is a difficult fish to keep but my ultimate goal is the moorish idol i think it is one of the most beautiful fish i've ever seen. I thank you for the info on the harlequin and the chocolate chip starfish. I did not know about thier eating habbits, I had thought that they were just like other shrimp and starfish. and don't worry about raining on my parade the whole reason I started this topic was to see the flaws in my plan before following through with it so that i did not end up killing my poor beautiful marine animals. I was originally thinking of going with damsels, zebras, and a clown or two to start, but then i did some research on all of them and found that the damsels can get extremely aggressive so i kind of have crossed those out, anyone have an oppinion on that???

 

[Anonymous]

Damsels can ger aggressive. The chromis is a nice non-agressive "starter" fish. Glad you ate taking the suggestios the right way. No one here wants to see you fail.

Moorish Idol is a really nice fish and one that those who keep it successfully have had to work up to.

Clowns are good also, even with out an anemone. They are hardy fish. They have been know to host in leathers or large polyp stonies.

 

[fishfanatic1985]

the chromis look like a good fish and i did some reading on them, now are the zebras considered damsels or are they something different? and also with some small fish in a 40 gallon tank what would some good starter corals be, and would you recomend starfish? if so which would be easiest (i know not the chocolate chip)?

 

[Anonymous]

Leather, zoanthids (polyps), mushrooms and most large poly stonies are good starters. I've not had much luck with starfish so I have none to reccomend. Not sure what a "Zebra" is. For fish you may want to consider a royal gramma, or lawnmower blenney. Their are tons of small to med fish that are not hard to keep.

 

[fishfanatic1985]

I've decided to settle for a mini reef for right now since for the moment budget is a tad limited, what is the recomendation for tank size to filter size ratio? I have a 10, 20, and a 30 gallon tank. I've been told that filter size should be only 5 gallons over filter size with a good power head but then I've been told that it should be like a 30 - 40 gallon filter for a ten gallon tank. any input?

 

[ChrisRD]

I recommend going with the largest tank you've got available - sounds like the 30 gallon. If you're planning on having a reef tank, go with a protein skimmer for your primary filtration. With adequate amounts of live rock, good circulation (a few strong powerheads) and the skimmer you should have all the filtration you need. If you're not going to have a sump, look into something like the AquaC Remora (hang-on type). If you plan to have a sump check into something like the ASM line of in-sump models - very easy to use and a good value.

When you say "filter" I'm assuming you're referring to a hang-on power filter. IMO they're useful as a maintenance tool for periodically running carbon or catching suspended detritus when you're cleaning your rock/sand but personally I wouldn't run one full time on a reef tank. If you do want to run one continously be sure to clean it out very frequently (at least weekly IMO) or the decomposing detritus and uneaten food that accumulates in this type of filter can do more harm than good to your water quality.