MH vs VHO

[spaulr]

I'm sure you've covered this before.... but I need some help deciding on a VHO system or a MH/VHO combo for my 40 gallon tank I'm building. I'd like to be able to keep LPS and SPS in my tank.

Price appears to double with the addition of a 175w halide. Any suggestions?

 

[ChrisRD]

The short answer - you can keep most things under VHO (plan on at least 4 full length lamps), but the highest light corals will do better under halides.
Plus the halide will give you the cool glimmer lines! 8)

 

[trido]

Im a newb here but I must say the corals are loving my new MH light over my 30 cube. I went from 96w quad over my 15 to a single 250MH with 14K and my 96w quad over the 30... my corals are much happier. I am running about 10+ watts a gallon. The 3-5 rule doesnt work. At least for me.

 

[spaulr]

So for a 40 gallon - 36x15x16. 1 250W 14k MH and 2 96W atenics. Is that enough covereage for 1 MH? Or should I go with a 14k and 2 50/50 VHO?

 

[Anonymous]

Did you see the tank of the month in AA?

80 G tank, and get this - 4 X 54 W of T5. That is correct, just arround 200 W! This is amazing (and probably not that typical)

Also for what it is worth I love my VHO, and they faired fairly well in the nano buildoff too.

IMO - get the VHO, and if you are not happy they always make great actinic supplementation later.

 

[Anonymous]

T5's and VHO are different lights. I dont think you will get the colorization that T5's or MH will give you in SPS when comapred to VHO's.
_________________
debt relief

 

[Anonymous]

Tubes is tubes! :wink:

T5 and VHO are different...
This is true!

 

[Sponge_Bob]

Very interesting post guys. I will have to research on those T5 tubes. But for now, I have on order, which I will get tomorrow morning 8) , an IceCap 660 Ballast + 2 URI 36" 95W VHO Super Actinic and same thing but Actinic. That means 380W for my 55gal. I was really interested by the MH but it's just too expensive at the moment. Right now, we started this tank Dec 21st 2005 and we are way above the $2500 mark with NO corals. And, you have to consider that I get my stuff with a generous discount. Ex.: Premium Fiji L.R. for $4.00/lbs Can. dollars. Now that's dirt cheap! I dare not calculate the amount it would have cost me at retail prices... not just the LR, but everything.

 

[Meloco14]

There are people who love fluorescents and people who love MH. I have tanks with both and in my opinion, there is no comparison. MH is so much brighter, and so much more of a natural look. And this is just from an aesthetic point of view. MH are also the way to go if you want sps corals. Now there is always an exception, and you will find a small percentage of people with successful SPS growth under T-5's or VHO. Heck, in my nano cube I have 3 species of SPS growing under PC's. But I still love the halides. My suggestion would be to go to a few LFS's or local reefers and check out their tanks and their lights. See which ones YOU like best. For me I know there is no comparison. I started out with NO's, then went to PC's, then finally MH. I wish I had gone MH from the beginning. For your 40 gallon, I'd go with 2 175 halides, or a 250 in the middle with VHO actinics. This is assuming cost isnt an issue, of course. But yes you would be able to keep some sps with just vho or t-5, it's just a bit more challenging. And fyi, the t-5's are a bit better than the vho's due to their reflector. HTH

 

[Sponge_Bob]

...SNIPPED... And fyi, the t-5's are a bit better than the vho's due to their reflector. HTH

What reflectors? Inside the tube itself? If so, URI VHO has the same reflector built-in the tube. Is it efficient?

Cheers!

 

[ChrisRD]

T-5s are used with an external reflector. The Tek and IceCap reflectors are considered to be the best, but particularly the IceCaps. T-5s w/good reflectors will put out more light than the equivalent number of VHO tubes while using less power (ie. much more efficient setup). The internal reflector on URI VHOs is better than nothing, but not nearly as efficient as T-5s w/good external reflectors.

BTW, if you decide to try T-5s some day you can run them on your IceCap ballast. The IC ballast overdrives them and provides substantially more light than a regular T-5 ballast. According to IceCap this overdriving does not substantially reduce lamp life, but I have no first hand experience with such a setup so I can't verify that.

All that said, VHO lighting is fine for many things. T-5s and MHs will generally be better for the more light demanding animals (although lighting is just one factor in a successful reef).

HTH

 

[spaulr]

Lighting is something that burned me when on my first go around with reef tanks. I ended up sticking with a FOWLR.

So I'm thinking 1 250W MH in the middle (IMO 2 is overkill in a 40 that is 16" deep) and either 2 VHO or 2 T5.

Parts for DIY halide setup-
250w ice cap ballast
mogul socket w/spider reflector
8' power cord
??? halide bulb

Anything else...heatsink maybe? I know I need fans.

The Next question is......how about the Kelvin rating of the MH? 10k, 12k, 14k, 20k. I know they get bluer the higher the kelvin but it seems that 20k is overkill and at that point you really need more light from the red spectrum? Hence no Actinics or 50/50s?

Thanks everyone for your help!!!!

 

[Sponge_Bob]

T-5s are used with an external reflector. The Tek and IceCap reflectors are considered to be the best, but particularly the IceCaps. T-5s w/good reflectors will put out more light than the equivalent number of VHO tubes while using less power (ie. much more efficient setup). The internal reflector on URI VHOs is better than nothing, but not nearly as efficient as T-5s w/good external reflectors.

BTW, if you decide to try T-5s some day you can run them on your IceCap ballast. The IC ballast overdrives them and provides substantially more light than a regular T-5 ballast. According to IceCap this overdriving does not substantially reduce lamp life, but I have no first hand experience with such a setup so I can't verify that.

All that said, VHO lighting is fine for many things. T-5s and MHs will generally be better for the more light demanding animals (although lighting is just one factor in a successful reef).

HTH

Chris,

Would external reflectors with my URI VHO help a bit? I asked the question to my LFS and they said not to bother with it. Did I get the right advice?

Thanks for all the info you provided. Much appreciated! Cheers mate.

 

[Meloco14]

spaulr - When I recommended 2 halides for your tank I meant 2 175w bulbs. Remember, when you go up in MH watts you are significantly increasing the depth the light can penetrate, but you are not significantly increasing the horizontal spread that the light covers. So, in your tank using 2 175 watt bulbs will cover the entire tank with light, while only sacrificing a little of the PAR that reaches the corals (as opposed to using 250's). Using one 250 in the center of the tank will provide a lot of light in the middle, but less on either side. This is fine as long as you are aware of this and can aquascape and place corals accordingly. Your DIY plans look good so far. For your reflector you might want to check out the Lumenarcs. I havent used them yet but I have heard a lot of praise about them on this site. I believe Len uses them, maybe he can offer his opinion. A heatsink isn't always necessary, however it doesnt hurt. Icecap makes a ballast box that you put your ballast into. It acts as a heatsink, and makes all the electrical connections neater. It may be worth looking into. For bulb color temperature, you really dont need to go above 14k if you have vho actinics. Of course, it is all preference based on how blue you like your tank to look. Most people will use a 10,000K and enough vho actinic to create a blue look they like. Others dont use actinics, so they go with a 14K or 20K bulb. In general, the higher the color temp, the less PAR they put out. So that is a consideration if you want to grow out corals quickly. HTH

 

[spaulr]

This is ending up being way more complicated, not to mention costly , than I expected. I actually had changed my mind about the 1 250W halide in the middle for the same reason Meloco14 pointed out.

The 2 175w seemed like a good way to go. If I go that route then I need 2 ice cap ballasts. Are there any less expensive ballast options out there (without sacrificing quality - with similar power consumption) than the Ice Caps? Blueline?

http://www.specialty-lights.com/250030.html

Again thanks for the help everyone....

 

[ChrisRD]

Either way will work (2 X 175 or 1 X 250) and each has its advantages. With 2 X 175 you will get more even illumination but with the single halide you get areas of both high and medium light. Since different corals have different preferences, as mentioned above, you can put more light demanding corals in the center of the tank and put the less light demanding LPS at the ends.

As for cheap DIY halide components - check out:
http://www.hellolights.com/

 

[ChrisRD]

Would external reflectors with my URI VHO help a bit? I asked the question to my LFS and they said not to bother with it. Did I get the right advice?

Unfortunately, at present nobody makes individual parabolic reflectors for VHOs like they do for T-5s. Probably because they would be a bit bulky. If they did, yes, they would make a very big difference and would be well worthwhile IMO.

The only reflectors I see for VHO setups are the big flat ones meant to accommodate a bunch of lamps at once. If you have the lamps with internal reflectors in them, these big flat reflectors probably don't provide much additional benefit.

In addition to reflectors, many folks who make DIY hoods like to paint the inside of the canopy glossy white to help reflect a bit more light down into the tank as well.

HTH

 

[Sponge_Bob]

Would external reflectors with my URI VHO help a bit? I asked the question to my LFS and they said not to bother with it. Did I get the right advice?

Unfortunately, at present nobody makes individual parabolic reflectors for VHOs like they do for T-5s. Probably because they would be a bit bulky. If they did, yes, they would make a very big difference and would be well worthwhile IMO.

The only reflectors I see for VHO setups are the big flat ones meant to accommodate a bunch of lamps at once. If you have the lamps with internal reflectors in them, these big flat reflectors probably don't provide much additional benefit.

In addition to reflectors, many folks who make DIY hoods like to paint the inside of the canopy glossy white to help reflect a bit more light down into the tank as well.

HTH

Well, at least I know I'm not cutting corners since there is no VHO reflectors made. I was planning on using some aluminium foil to cover the inside surfaces of my custom made canopy. Maybe this would help a bit. What do you think?

 

[cjsrch]

i prefer vho. one reason is you cant burn your self on them . mh turn your skin to cheese if you forget to let them cool. also MH are more of a fire hazard ( i said more.. i didnt say that vho dont start fires)




\

now on vho t12 vs ho t5;s t5s dont have as good of spectrum when it comes to actinic bulbs . last time i checked.


"Unfortunately, at present nobody makes individual parabolic reflectors for VHOs like they do for T-5s. Probably because they would be a bit bulky. If they did, yes, they would make a very big difference and would be well worthwhile IMO.

The only reflectors I see for VHO setups are the big flat ones meant to accommodate a bunch of lamps at once. If you have the lamps with internal reflectors in them, these big flat reflectors probably don't provide much additional benefit. "


the internal reflectors capture the light from the bulb and directs it down. a big reflector over all of your hood captures the light that is reflected off the water / glass and puts it back in the tank.


anyways. i know that all i ever used was vho and PC and its gonna stay that way nice thing with icecap 660 is you can use them with any bulb. pc t8 t5 t12 . ^^ anyways good luck

 

[Josh Weber]

sponge_bob, i do that with my halide. i thought it helpedb/c all the light your wasteing on your hood is not in your tank. for the most part. it's not alot more but its free and won't hurt a bit. the foil will start to flake, and fall apart in 6-9 months if you have alot of salt creap. but keep it clean, and go for it.
spaulr, go with 2 175's at 14,000k if thats what you like. i have a 250 20,000k and the corals look amazing under the blue light. good luck!!
josh