turbo death, aggressive sally lghtft, orange peel attacks

[russn8r]

Hi,

I have a month-old 30 gal with lots of rock, holes, passages and lanes to swim, 7 small fish, a cleaner ship, medium sally lightfoot crab, ~10-15 hermits, two larger turbos and a few smaller snails. Fish seem happy. Tank seems to be stabilizing; ammonia low now for several weeks. However, the bigger turbos keep dying and the ones that aren't dying seem week. Is there a link or page where I can find general treatment of what snails like and don't like, etc.?

On a couple other issues, the crab chased the shrimp a couple days ago and I suspect it may be eating hermits. I've been seeing what appear to be hermit crab legs here and there, like right below the electric blue crab shell which hasn't moved for days and I can't tell if it's still in there - unless they're molting, but the legs look too colorful for a molt. Hate to return the crab because it eats lots of algae, but I don't want it to eat everything else. Should I return it? If so, is there a way to catch it without pulling the rock out?

Got a 2-inch 'Orange Peel Pseudochromis' a few days ago. Described as "more peaceful than many other Pesudochromis"
( www.petsolutions.com/Orange+Peel+Pseudo ... 04-C-.aspx ). Nevertheless it's surprise attacking all the other fish. I saw it take a little chunk out of a bottom fin on a 2" clownfish. Attacked a smaller clownfish and although it left no visible mark, the clownfish twitched for about 15 minutes. Meanwhile a normally sociable neon goby was missing for 12 hours. Could the pseudo be venomous? Should I take it back?

Got an eel-like blenny a week ago; hides on the bottom behind rocks and never comes out. Do they ever get sociable?

Thanks,
Russn8r

 

[ChrisRD]

Hi Russ and :welcome:

Can you tell us a bit more about your setup (ie. age, filtration, etc.)? Also, can you give us some basic water parameters (ie. temp, pH, salinity/SG, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?

To start with, it sounds like your tank is overstocked. Most marine fish are territorial and can't be packed into a small tank like freshwater fish. I suspect overstocking is the cause of your ammonia which in turn could be the cause of your snail losses. You shouldn't begin stocking a tank until there's no sign of ammonia.

The Sally Lightfoot is an omnivore and they have a reputation for bothering other inverts and small fish if they aren't getting enough to eat which can be an issue in a small tank. Personally, I don't trust crabs in my tanks anymore (including hermits) as they are pretty opportunistic feeders.

Pseudochromis are notoriously aggressive with certain exceptions (for example P. fridmani) so I can't say I'm surprised at the behavior of yours.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Agreed w/ Chris. You have way too much in there too early on. Your tank isn't yet capable of cycling all the waste your inhabitants are producing.

As far as the sally lightfoot i've never ventured that path but I've heard nothing but negatives about them in reef tanks.

My personal experience with pseudochromis (green to be specific) has been great so far.....but he is one of the smallest inhabitants so he can't talk too much trash :lol:

 

[russn8r]

Hi. Thans for answering. Sorry it took long to get back. Misplaced the link...

Can you tell us a bit more about your setup (ie. age, filtration, etc.)? Also, can you give us some basic water parameters (ie. temp, pH, salinity/SG, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate)?

Tank now 5 months. 77, normal ph, normal salinity, zero ammonia & nitrite, nitrate dropping, now 15-20. Snails seem to be doing well now. Using CAPTIVE SUN AZ-NO3 nitrate reducer. Got rid of the Sally crab and put the OP pseudo in another tank. After that, a cleaner shrimp disappeared. I suspect the engineer goby ate him, since the other 4 fish are far too small (two clowns, two damsels). Also, I was feeding the engineer fairly big shrimp on a prong, so I suspect I inadvertently trained the little bastard to go after shrimp. I also think he's going after hermits. I had maybe 10 in the tank and over a period of a couple months they all disappeared. I suspect he gets them at night, maybe exploits molting. Thinking about returning him too, but I'll have to tear the tank apart.

I got a 40 gal uniquarium, but it seems to have had ich and it killed off several fish I added, including the pseudo. The tank came with a lawnmower blenny, which seems to be resistant to ich and very amenable to letting a cleaner shrimp groom him, even inside the gills.

I quarantined the fish for a month and treated with copper and hyposalinity, then put back. Even after that, however, a blue damsel died not too long after I put them back. Like part of his dorsal began to rot away. I wonder if it was complications from ich, and I wonder if it's still in the tank. I vacuum packed the fish. I wonder if there's a lab I could send it to for diagnosis. The lawnmower seems fine, but still gets spots here and there and still has the cleaner going into his gills.

I have a full grown engineer in that tank, and I suspect it's also eating hermits, unless they keep disappearing for some other reason. There's also a huge electric blue hermit, though he seems pretty sedentary.

 

[russn8r]

P.S. Is there a convenient list somewhere of invertebrates and/or plants that help reduce nitrates?

 

[fyrefysh]

Just make sure that you are doing water changes on a regular basis, this will help keep your nitrates down. I use Cheatomorpha spp. to help with the nasties, it seems to work well.

 

[Meloco14]

Well getting back to your original post, you definitely were overstocked, and from what I read it sounds like you had all those fish in there after the tank had been up only a month. Most tanks need a month minimum just to cycle, and then maybe another month of having just some invertebrates before adding a fish or two. In the future if you can slow down you will probably save some headaches and losses. For the tank with ich, how long did you keep fish out of the tank, and did you keep all of the fish out of the tank or only a few? It sounds like ich is most definitely still in the tank. You need to take out every single fish and keep the tank fishless for 6-8 weeks to allow all of the ich to die off. Only after that is it safe to put fish back in. If the blenny is constantly being cleaned, it means he is being affected by ich and the shrimp is picking them off. Cleaning of the gills also points to this, as ich attacks the gills of fish. To lower nitrate in your tank make sure you are keeping up with regular water changes. You want to make sure you limit the amount of nutrients going into the tank, and building up within the tank. To do this, make sure you are not over feeding the tank. Make sure there are no spots in the tank where detritus is building up. If you have any type of sponge or filter floss or pad anywhere, make sure you keep them clean. Make sure you have a good skimmer and that it's working properly. If detritus doesnt get a chance to build up, nitrates wont get a chance to build up. Using macroalgae is a very good way to export nitrate. As fyrefysh mentioned, chaetomorpha is one of the best algaes for the job. However, any macro will do. For inverts, many corals take up nitrates, and also clams. But using inverts as a nitrate scrubber is a specialized process. You will need a lot of corals or clams to notice a difference. If you are interested in this, do a search for xenia scrubbers, as these are the most common corals used for nitrate export. HTH

 

[russn8r]

Thanks People,

Had all fish out for a month, per article I read. Not long enough I guess.

The 40 gal tank with the ich was an established tank (>= 6 mo anyway) that I bought and stocked with a few more fish, but I suspect the seller didn't tell me ich had killed all the fish except the lawnmower.

My new 30 gal tank only has 5 small fish and no real problems now except I need to lose the engineer before putting any more small inverts in. But it never had more than 7 very small fish. I have to believe nitrates, etc. are not just a function of the number of fish, but should be a size / activity / food adjusted measure, no? e.g., one large fish that eats a lot should be worse than 7 very small fish that even collectively eat very little.

I'm guessing by macroalgae you mean seaweed/kelp type plants, and chaetomorpha is one type? Is chaetomorpha the "common" name of one particular plant-like algae (or algae-like plant)? Anywhere I could see a list of common names so I know what to buy?

I'm not against water changes, but I'm not keen on unecessary water changes. I'm going for an ecosystem that cleans itself for as long as possible, enabling reduced water-change frequency in part based on water quality tests rather than a schedule the frequency of which is independent of water quality.

Thanks again
Russ

 

[Meloco14]

Hi Russ, you are right in that nitrate level is a function of many things. If you have a high nitrate level, it is most likely a result of one of or a combination of the following: overfeeding, too high of a bioload, inadequate skimming, inadequate biofiltration, or a build up of detritus or unconsumed food. Performing a water change is the only way to immediately lower nitrate levels. This is only necessary if your nitrates are at dangerous levels, though. If your nitrates are not dangerously high but you still want to get your nitrates down, you need to address the factors that I mentioned. Nitrate export can also be accelerated through chemical or biological means. Most people don't like to put unnecessary chemicals into their tanks, but this is definitely an option. More often people use refugiums with macroalgae and deep sand beds to export nitrates. Kelp and seaweeds are indeed types of macroalgae. Chaetomorpha is a genus (I believe) of macroalgae, and is very popular for use in refugiums. Caulerpa is another genus of macroalgae that you will commonly find available in fish stores. I am not aware of a list of common names of macro algae, but if you search a number of online retailers you will get an idea of the different available types of macroalgae. Chaetomorpha is a little harder to find, but it is a great algae for refugiums. I was able to get some from a member of reefs.org, so you may want to check the for sale forums here or at other reef forum sites. Regarding water changes, I also do not like to do many of them. I personally do about one every month and a half to two months in my 55 gallon tank, and I rarely do them in my nanocube. However I think the only reason I am able to do this is by having a very low bioload. I have no fish in my nanocube, only corals, snails, and crabs, and so I rarely add any nutrients into the system. The tank has been running for over 2 years with only live rock, live sand, chemi-pure and purigen for filtration and it has been one of my most successful tanks. My 55 gallon has a refugium, good skimming, and a phosban reactor, along with a very light bio-load, which allows me to get away with very few water changes. If you are looking to do fewer water changes while maintaining the quality of your tank, I would recommend lowering your bioload, while maintaining very good bio-filtration, good skimming, and a refugium. HTH