I want to start a 5G? Recommendations

[saltman123]

Hello,
Well, I have been reading up on salt water fish for quite some time, but have never actually had a salt water tank. I've had tons of freshwater, and even a Freshwater Stingray which is said to be extremely hard like keeping corals. I don't know how it compares, but I know that Ammonia would spike out of nowhere and it was a process.

I am hoping to utilize a small 5 gallon acrylic tank I have hanging around. I would like to start out slow and learn, possibly just keeping some live rock, a clean up crew of snails/crabs/shirmp, and maybe a clown fish.

I've read tons of books explaining all of the filtration differences and all the jazz. I need someone to help me get a setup that is worthy.

I have a heater, and even a few whisper filters and aqua clears. Are these usable? Do I need to use different media or can I use the standard floss/cotton bag filled with carcoal? I am clueless on the nano filtration needs. I've heard to run 2 HOB's, one with media, another with live rock?

Do I need a skimmer? I've seen the fission mini skimmer all over the place I will consider if necessary.

As far as lighting, what is the cheapest route? Or can I get away without great lighting if I am just starting out with live rock and a fish or so? I am hoping to learn water balance and control. After I am confident I will kick it up in hopes of bringing in corals, etc.

Can Anyone give me some pointers? I have local fish stores so I will plan to buy live rock and live sand if those are the recommendations.

Anyone willing to give me the info and a swift kick to get me going???Smile All is appreciated!

 

[Anonymous]

I would not do a 5g tank as a first SW tank. a 5G tank takes allot of work The levels in a 5G volume - more like 3 gallons after adding LR would fluctuate allot.

You would be better off with a 29G or bigger as a first tank IMO.
_________________
Mercedes Benz W196

 

[Anonymous]

Hello uptime,
:welcome:

What books have you read so far?

By doing some reading first, you probably already know this, but starting right out with a "nano" (arguably, 30 gallons or less) can be an economical way to get your feet in the water, but it comes at another price.. - Smaller volumes of water mean that when things go wrong, they get worse a LOT faster.

I'd hold off on the power filters and the skimmer. Just a small powerhead and weekly or bi-weekly water changes is enough. (But changes are definitely needed!)

Also, being able to monitor the water level closely is a must with a small tank like that. Evaporation means the salinity will crank up quickly which makes other things going wrong a lot easier/faster too.

Have you checked out this book?
The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide
I've gotten that book for a few people I've introduced to the hobby as a starter.

A couple others I haven't looked into yet but might be worthwhile for you here too:
The Nano-Reef Handbook
and
The Simple Guide To Mini-reef Aquariums

As for lighting, theres quite a few options but what would probably work the best is a small Power Compact (PC) setup of some sort.

What are your tanks dimensions (length, width, height)??

Norm

 

[saltman123]

Hey Guys,
I want to start by saying thanks for the replies.

Yes, I do agree that 5 gallong is super small compared to what I've heard. The truth is that I have a 46 gallong bow front that I am dying to set up, but I am hoping to start with a smaller tank for starters. My thoughts were that I could try to get a 5 or 10 gallon running with minimal stuff.

I understand that the smaller the harder so if I should definitely NOT go this small as a new tank I won't. That just means I will have to wait a good 2 or 3 months until I can start the bigger tank.


I have an extra 5 gallon acrylic tank. It is one of those older acrylics that has 5 panes on the front side to give you that bow feel, and then the back is straight/flat. I will find the dimensions later tonight.

The books I've read so far are:
The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide
Getting into Mini-Reefs - by Jim Fatherree
The simple guide to Marine Aquariums (Half way read but reading on)

I've also read tons of forums including this one and 2 other popular ones.

So yes, I totally get the understanding that nanos are much harder due to the fact that water quality and chemistry can change in a heart beat.

As I mentioned earlier I've kept a freshwater stingray that was a very hard fish to keep. It was very much like salt water chemistry but the major difference was that I was relying on a wet/dry filter to maintain the water and plenty of water changes. It eventually outgrew my tank and I sold it. So I was successful at it.

My hopes were to fire up a mini tank that just has a few things in it. Maybe just some fish? Maybe a few pieces of live rock if at all possible just to get an understanding of having it? Some crabs, snails, and/or shrimp to clean up if necessary?

For equipment I have a little HOB around here somewhere, I think it is a smaller whisper filter. I also have all sorts of aerators, pumps, and a few power heads.

Should I attempt this with such a small tank going a simple route with just a few small things in it? Or just wait till I can get the 46 gallong going? I may be able to run a 10 gallon instead of a 5 gallon since I think I have a whole setup so if that is a much better idea let me know and I will go that route instead.

Excited, and hoping to get into the hobby sooner than later. Again, thanks for any further replies

 

[Meloco14]

Well you've already heard the difficulties of the small tank, so I'll skip that. If you are looking to try a "simple" setup for the 5g just to get a feel for the hobby I think you will be fine, but you need to know your limitations. First of all, I wouldn't put a fish in it. Fish put the most bioload into your tank and having a fish in a 5g will require more maintenance than one without a fish. I would recommend setting up with some sand and live rock for filtration, and a powerhead or two. You can even use one of your hang on back filters for water movement and occasionally running carbon or other media. Just remember to keep the floss clean, otherwise detritus will build up on it and cause nitrate to build. You can get a decent PC light for fairly cheap and this will allow you to have mushroom corals and polyps. You can also add a shrimp or two, or an arrow crab. This will give you an nice looking little tank that is relatively simple and low maintenance. The only things you'll really need to do are water changes and occasional light feeding for the shrimp or crab. You won't need suppliments or a skimmer or anything else, really. Since you are using this as a practice tank, though, you may want to get some test kits and get into the habit of testing your water parameters every few days for the first few months, and then slowing down as your tank gets settled and you have a better feel for things. On another note, though, the 46 is a popular size for first saltwater tanks, so you may want to just jump in with that. You can still start slow, with low light corals and a very light fish load, and then build up as you gain experience and confidence. HTH and good luck.

 

[saltman123]

Thanks again for the replies.

So from the suggestions it seems like a small 5 gallon can be pulled off quite well if I stick to Live Rock, Mushroom Corals and Polyps, and a few crabby critters. I guess I will eventually hope to possibly introduce a fish.

My only concern was that I thought it was easier to keep fish so that is why I was thinking about keeping a fish over corals. Is that so?? Will a mini tank of this nature do ok with corals if it has the right lights, etc? Keep in mind I am 100% new to Salt. I am definitely involved and have kept fish and stuff so I am not totally doubting myself. I just want to be sure I am going about it the right way.

I want to get the 46 gallon going but am not able too just yet for various reasons. So I figured give it a shot with the 5 gallon acrylic I have around.

Any suggestion on a PC light for a 16 inch long tank??? I don't want to spend an arm and a leg so any suggestions that will cut it are appreciated. ebay??? any specific model? I found these one that was a little short but might cut it
Light 1

Light 2

Bulb for current fixture
The tank actually has a really nice acrylic top that takes 2 plain glass bulbs. Can I possibly use these lights instead I might be able to mod it and just make it work. Or should I buy something different like the other 2 listed above?
Thanks again

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the long reply here, its still a bit early and I haven't had my caffiene yet. - I'll probably babble about stuff you already here too, my apologies beforehand...

Yes, it is easier to keep fish. If thats your main concern anyway. The reason people would steer you away from fish is that if you want to keep corals, keeping fish too requires more attention to the water quality as fish will generally add more biological processes to the mix and are more likely to cause you to foul the waters. (You want your fish fed don't you?)

Many people have a tendency to overfeed a tank when there are fish in the mix. - Which can be ok, as long as you have the biodiversity to make up for it. (My tank has tons of bristleworms, spagetti worms and the like to make up for the fact that I feed somewhat heavy.)

The catch is though, if you want to add more complex corals to it later, it makes it a bit more challenging to maintain a good balance and keep the water quality nice and high like most complex corals need.


On the lighting that you've found, I would shoot for the 24w PC in "Light 2".. - As long as the ends aren't hanging over the sides of your tank. Otherwise, I'd go with the two 9w PC bulb setup.

As for keeping the existing incandescent (NO for Normal Output) lights, if you can do it, go for it. -- I used to use (and still wish I did) a NO bulb in one of my first reef tanks as an aid for my fish at night.

Quick, stark light changes startle fish. I had mine setup on an X10 controller that would gently dim the NO bulb so that my fish could find a space and "settle in" for the night instead of suddenly being left out in the open, in the dark. -- They tend to bolt when that happens and can run themselves into bad spots or even wind up jumping out of the water/tank..

But, setting up X10 controllers can be a pain sometimes so maybe thats not really an issue for you at the moment. Plus, if you can find other ways to keep your fish safe at a sudden lights out, theres really no need in it anyway. (Just something to think about some day down the road maybe..)

If you really want to go with fish right away, I would start by getting everything else in the tank long-term acclimated. This means at least a few weeks with no further additions and the fish being the only thing left to go in.

Then, for the choice in fish I would go with something that will remain relatively small. -- Basslets, pseudochromis, damnsels (yes, I intended that misspelling) and some gobies are fairly good choices that way.

Just keep in mind the requirements of whatever you choose and how likely they are to get along with any future tank mates should you decide to move up to a larger tank with other fish.

Hope that helps,
Norm

 

[saltman123]

Hey Norm,
Awesome reply! Thanks for all that.

To go along further, I totally get the reason why a fish can throw off a coral bound tank quickly. I guess my question is, are the easier of corals and the related MUCH harder than fish in a 5 gallon nano??

So about the lighting, are the coralife fluorescent bulbs also considered NO? Bulb Light. I am not sure they will fit in my fixture but I am willing to mod it if they will. I could ideally maybe squeeze 2 of the 10W bulbs into my current hood. Would that be an ideal solution or should I just spring for the Light 1?

Or, if I went with Light 2 it may be an ideal solution. My tank is about 16 inches wide. That strip seems to be about 13 so the brackets may just make it a perfect match. If I can salvage the food I already have let me know as well.

If I could set up a tank without fish but with really cool corals and critters I would have no issue leaving a fish out of the mix.

I have an idea, why don't you take a look at this other persons tank in another forum and let me know if this is way over my head or not. I simply want to get a tank that has some live rock, critters, shrimp, crabs, and maybe corals/anemones if those are a possibility.

Take a look at this persons tank and let me know if this is way far out for a newbie to attempt, or if it is ideal with some possible eliminations:

TANK

I'm totally ready to get a tank cycling. I guess the specific questions will come next.

Definitely interested to know if a tank like that is way overboard.

Or if considering the 12 gallon Aquapod is a wise decision let me know. I am figuring this new light may cost me about $35 and there may be additional stuff. My buddy will sell me his brand new aquapod for $120 total. I would rather do it with my 5 Gallon but if its better to bite the bullet to make it a better experience I might be up for it. I do hope to eventually go to a 46 gallon so the new 12 gallon nano may not be necessary. Thoughts?

 

[Meloco14]

Hi uptime, the question of which is harder, fish or corals, in all honesty is relative. You could have a tank of just mushroom corals and polyps that don't require any more than light and occasional water changes. Or you could have a tank with a single, hardy fish like a tank raised ocellaris clown and all you need is daily feeding and occasional water changes. Which is easier? Well, that's your call. The problem we all face in this hobby is we all intend to start small. A few months down the road and you'll be like, ooh! I want that! I want that too! and soon you will realize you need a bigger tank, like all of us do :wink: . So my suggestion would be to take the time now to decide what it is you really, really want in this first tank. After all, it will be you who is looking at it and taking care of it. Some people get bored with a tank without any fish in it. Some people can spend days staring at coral polyps and hermit crabs going about their clumsy, daily routines. If you think you would like to try keeping corals, go that route. If you are more interested in learning to keep marine fishes, get a fish. Once you make that decision you can then figure out which will be the simplest corals to keep, or the simplest fish to keep. Either way you can set up a fairly low maintenance but successful tank. As far as modeling your tank after the one in the link, you could definitely do this. The polyps and that big striped mushroom are basically what I recommended before, and along with the GSP would be fine in your tank with the 24 watt PC. The LPS corals in that tank would require more light. They also need calcium to build their calcareous skeleton so you will need to monitor those levels and supplement if necessary. But that is something you should get used to anyway. Either path you choose, you will be able to add corals to your fish only tank or add a fish to your coral tank down the line when you are more comfortable with things. I hope this makes sense and helps.

 

[Anonymous]

No.. - That tank is completely doable for you actually, as long as you can be totally patient and go really slow.. - If it were mine, I'd probably move the ricordia a little more center to get some more light, but otherwise its probably just fine actually. -- Maybe a little more flow, hard to tell..

But, nothing against you at all, being new I would recommend you take your time and go slow with a setup like that.. - I mean, go ahead with everything but the hammer and the favites anyway (the "brain" in that thread, also sometimes called a "pineapple" - among others..) Those two are LPS's and while still pretty hearty, I would just make sure that everything else is settled in really good, water parameters are nice and stable, theres plenty of water flow (but not too intense, you want lots of volume with little velocity) and then add those. -- And obviously, add the stuff before them slowly too..

For the lights.. - Yeah, if you can, I would definitely go with the 24w light too.. - I think that would help the tank you pointed out to me too.. - Just watch the legs on that one if you do. - I think I've heard of quite a few people mentioning that they break fairly easy.

But yeah, the 9x9 light might just be ok too.. - Mostly it comes down to whether you want the light more focused in the center of the tank with shading on the ends or you want even light all the way across. - I don't know that theres going to be all that much difference in intensity between those two setups.

As for the screw-in replacements.. - Yeah, you might as well consider those NO for all intents and purposes. I'm sure their spectal plot is actually above NO but if I recall, from what I've seen its not enough to make the difference between PC (Power Compact) and NO.

As far as corals vs. fish in difficulty.. - Well... - I guess the main thing with the "easier" ones is that they're actually fairly tolerant of water conditions for the most part. Its light thats usually the critical thing with most of them. (There are non-photosynthetics too, but generally they're considered difficult..)

Without fish in the mix, its easier to keep the water conditions in really good shape. - Fish with no corals and you can sorta let the water get downright foul but.. no corals so not too big an issue generally. - Thats really the gist of it I guess.

And for the cost on that other tank.. - I'd save my change for a really nice sized tank instead.

 

[saltman123]

Awesome replies guys!!!!

So it seems like it makes sense that time and patience are a virtue to either setup. I am thinking I would like to give a coral related tank a try first. If you can help me understand what may be an ideal setup that would be great!

I will be purchasing one of the 3 light setups. I may bring my current hood to the store and see how those NO type bulb replacement lights work. If those are no-go's I will probably go for the 18W or the 2X9W. Maybe i'll flip a coin between the two.

SO that leads me to ask, what is an idea setup if I am going the coral related route?

Sand/Substrate
Should I find some Live sand or go with normal? Also, is the dry sand labeled "Live" sand a good idea? How much, about an inch on the bottom? I know some say use Aragonate or Crushed Coral but I've read both good and bad on that. Suggestions?

Live Rock
Should I use the standard of a little more than 1lb per gallon so about 6lbs or so??

Filter - I have an Aqua Clear Mini HOB, and a Whisper C HOB that is rated for 20 gallons. Should I use these with the cotton/charcoal insert? I know some have said to make it a Refugium instead. Can the filter alone do? I know one person said they use chemipure in a bag in their HOB to also help remove toxins, etc.

Heater - I have an extra submersible 50w heater. It is definitely about 7 years old or so. Or I'm up to buy another one to get the job done. Visitherm Glass, Pro Heat Glass?? I have access to these 2 brands. Is one better than the other?

PowerHead
I really like the RIO product so I might want to buy some new ones of this brand. Any idea how many GPH are needed? Or should I buy 2 smaller pumps instead of just one?
Rio 180 = 120GPH
Rio 50 = 69GPH
Rio 90 = 85GPH
Rio 400 = 144GPH - I know this one can accept a duck bill attachment as well.

Test Kit
So Do I need a reef specific test kit that tests calcium, phos, nitrate & includes supplements supplements? Or the marine type that ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, & alkalinity? Or BOTH? I am thinking both.... I know many people recommend Salifer- I didn't see a one box test all kit. They are all separate with Salifer. I did see a REEF KIT and a separate MARINE KIT by Red Sea Marine Lab? Is the Red sea kit good, or go with the Salifer?

Chemicals/Additives
Are any buffers or anything needed?

My Next post is going to be on exactly which rocks/corals are ideal such as the mushroom and polyps you have already suggested. More on that after I understand the best of the setup.

Thanks again Everyone. You guys are really helping a TON!!!
:lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Sand/Substrate
Theres been a lot of debate about sand actually. And since I usually sit somewhere in the middle in politics, I sit somewhere in the middle on the issue of sand beds too. - Personally, I think its totally up to you. The key with sand is that if you go with any sand at all, it will require something for maintenance. - Whether that thing is you, or critter(s) is a whole other issue. (This is where things start to get a little technical..)

Keeping it simple though.. - A relatively thin layer of sand / crushed coral (around 2") probably wouldn't hurt and most like the look of it over a bare bottomed tank.

Its still out there somewhere, but I wouldn't recommend going after a type of sand you might have seen talked about online called "southdown" or anything thats really fine and powdery. Its not going to help you in a tank that size and can actually give you fits instead.

Getting to the root of your question though.. - Just get dry stuff and then when things settle down a bit, go to your LFS (Local Fish Store) and get a pound of live sand from them.


This also reminds me.. - You sent a link to the CF (Compact Flourescent) bulbs that was at Petsmart.. Umm... - Not to discredit Petsmart at all, but if thats where you've been going so far, you may want to look around a little. When it comes to reefkeeping, typically, the mom and pop shops are the better bet. Over the last dozen or so years it seems theres really been an
explosion of mom and pops that are more reef-dedicated. Might be a bit tough to find one but they certainly exist and they can be a HUGE asset to getting you going successfully.

If you need help finding one, just let me know. I've been toying around for a few years now setting up a website with a live database of shops and manufacturers and stuff. (Just a "spare" time thing..)


Live Rock
Yeah, a little over a lb / gallon is good.. - Its your biological filter as well as a decorative piece so don't skimp. - Again, a good LFS is really helpful here..


Filter
I would pass on using the cotton sleeves with those HOB filters. - I use one on my 72g bow for occasional carbon, but if I did water changes a little more frequent I wouldn't need to do that either.

Heater
I think I have an old (12 years) 50w visitherm I used on my 12g nano a few months back.. - Yeah.. - Should be fine.. - Just make sure it doesn't get too hot is the main thing. - Having a spare handy is good too but the critical thing is not to cook the tank.

PowerHead
RIO's are NOT liked by reefkeepers. - Too many have melted and leached toxins into tank. Seriously bad mojo there.

Check these out:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant ... unze_pumps


Test Kit
Good enough to get started with:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant ... =MarineLab
After that, look to names like Salifert, LaMotte, Hach and maybe SeaChem.

Chemicals/Additives
Nope... - Bi-weekly water change. - 50% is awesome.

 

[saltman123]

Again,
Thanks for the lengthy reply!!

Seems like I am figuring out lots as we go back and forth. very cool

Sand/Substrate
So I guess I will plan to shoot for some normal crushed coral/sand, and then plan to add in some live sand from an established tank. I do want to get something that looks very natural like in the actual ocean reefs. I would consider the marine sand but it seems very fine and will probably mix like crap. Not to mention that I've seen the marine sand at the store and it just looks very man made for some reason. It is that really fake looking purified sand. I would rather have the bigger chunked rock like stuff. I will plan to shoot over to more of a specialty store and see what they have/recommend.

About the mom and pop vs. the chain stores. I totally know that they are like night and day. I was just surfing for a possible light bulb and that just happened to be where it was. My local petco doesn't even carry salt water fish at all other than a small line of products. So yes, I totally know not to go there. I am trying to spot the better places to shop locally already

Live Rock
Are there any ones that are better than others. I've heard Figi is great, and then people shoot it down. When shopping for live rock, what exactly am I looking for? It will obviously be cured/live in a tank when I am shopping. So should I look for little critters, worms, and certain algae? I would imagine I should also be trying to find pieces that will fit together nicely when it comes time to try to stack them right?

Filter
So you recommend almost not using any filter at all?? Will the live rock actually be able to manage the tank like the example one I've shown? I would probably feel better having a small HOB. The example tank says he uses an aquaclear with a bag of chemipure. Is this ideal?

Heater
I actually just found a 50W Visitherm glass heater I had from an older setup. I may have not even used this one. It is definitely probably a good 6+ years old but I tested it and it looks good. I'm gonna run with this for now.

PowerHead
I guess I will leave Rio out and just consider something else. The example you have shown by Tunge, it says it only moves 39.6 - 79.2 US gal./h. Is that enough? Would I be better off with 2 of these? I actually have a brand new Minijet 404 which moves 104GPH. Is this a better idea? If so, will just that one minijet be enough?? I am just trying to understand how much movement I actually need.

Test Kit
I will be ordering that marine lab test kit asap. Do I need that other reef lab kit that also gave the calcium, phos, nitrate? I take it this may be something that will come later as I get deeper into corals and more difficult stuff.


Thanks again for all of the awesome information. I am sure this thread is pretty boring for the average joe to read but hopefully it can help out another newbie going the same route on his first nano

Next, I hope to talk about the steps I have to take, in what order, and then when to put certain species in.

!!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Sand/Substrate
So I guess I will plan to shoot for some normal crushed coral/sand, and then plan to add in some live sand from an established tank. I do want to get something that looks very natural like in the actual ocean reefs. I would consider the marine sand but it seems very fine and will probably mix like crap. Not to mention that I've seen the marine sand at the store and it just looks very man made for some reason. It is that really fake looking purified sand. I would rather have the bigger chunked rock like stuff. I will plan to shoot over to more of a specialty store and see what they have/recommend.

That brings to mind something that no ones seemed to touch on much (from what I've seen) but still a point worthy of consideration.. - Everyone has their preferences for substrate and the general concensus seems to be that if you have one at all, getting the substrate full of micro organisms is generally a good thing. But no one seems to discuss that different grained substrates will generally contain different organisms.

What I'm getting at is that its totally up to you what you go with. Especially in a nano. - But whatever it is you do go with, probably the best chance at success in "activating" it or getting it good and live is to try and match up the grains, yours and your sources.

It is sorta splitting hairs too though.. - Sand will become "live" even without adding live sand to it.. - The organisms from the rock will move in to the sand as well. - But having good biodiversity certainly doesn't hurt!

Live Rock
Are there any ones that are better than others. I've heard Figi is great, and then people shoot it down. When shopping for live rock, what exactly am I looking for? It will obviously be cured/live in a tank when I am shopping. So should I look for little critters, worms, and certain algae? I would imagine I should also be trying to find pieces that will fit together nicely when it comes time to try to stack them right?

Again, its like substrates.. - Personal choice.. - Generally though, a large yet suprisingly light piece of rock means its very porous and generally better as more of the water column can infiltrate it and get biologically filtered. I usually look for that and the overall shape/size for stacking/placement.

And for a first nano, I would recommend going with cured stuff. - Especially if you want to get moving with it in a short timeframe and don't want to have to explain where that nasty sulphur / rotten egg smell is coming from and that it won't last forever.

Filter
So you recommend almost not using any filter at all?? Will the live rock actually be able to manage the tank like the example one I've shown? I would probably feel better having a small HOB. The example tank says he uses an aquaclear with a bag of chemipure. Is this ideal?

Chemipure ideal? No, not really.. - Not necessary for the most part.

And a filter floss will trap detritus and do a great job of quickly breaking down the ammonia and nitrites into nitrates, but will pretty much end there and linger, leaving you with high nitrate levels. Some people are successful in running this way, the majority of people are not. - Stories of those that had been for successful with it for years and suddenly crash pop up every now and then too. IMO, better to avoid the possibility right off and forgo the filter floss.

The bag of chemipure (or carbon) is again, in my opinion unneccessary. - I would opt instead for regular water changes. -- If water changes aren't feasible, or you would simply rather not, then yeah, some sort of chemical filtration will eventually become needed. - Carbon is probably a better alternative over chemipure, but to each their own.

Otherwise its pretty pointless really. - A natural system can (for the most part) take care of itself.

The other thing with HOB filters too is that they usually lead to salt creep. Salt creep as you might already know, is where dried salt deposits form when water has splashed and evaporated, leaving a salt crystal residue behind that builds up.

Power heads are a better idea generally....

PowerHead
I guess I will leave Rio out and just consider something else. The example you have shown by Tunge, it says it only moves 39.6 - 79.2 US gal./h. Is that enough? Would I be better off with 2 of these? I actually have a brand new Minijet 404 which moves 104GPH. Is this a better idea? If so, will just that one minijet be enough?? I am just trying to understand how much movement I actually need.

40-80gph should be plenty for a 5g. - Typically, we shoot to turn over around 10x the water volume per hour in most reef setups.

And (though I haven't tried it) I hear that the Tunze I sent you the link to does a great job of moving a lot of water and giving a good, gentle flow.

Test Kit
I will be ordering that marine lab test kit asap. Do I need that other reef lab kit that also gave the calcium, phos, nitrate? I take it this may be something that will come later as I get deeper into corals and more difficult stuff.

Just the one kit should be fine for a 5g.. - Really, all you need to watch out for is the ANN (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate) cycle.. - Any kits for calcium, phos, etc, are really geared more for larger volumes of water where water changes won't necessarily get those levels where we'd like them. - As long as you can do weekly 10% changes or bi-weekly 50% changes in that nano, you won't need to test for calcium or phosphates - or pretty much anything really.

And later on down the road (once the tank is cycled and you've been keeping the water quality consistent) you can probably just get by with just an ammonia alert.



Good deal on the mom & pop shops vs. the major chains too!

And take a look around and look into a local reef club if there is one too.. - Could be a great place to find live sand, trade frags and other great benefits too.

 

[Meloco14]

I agree with everything GD said. As far as running a HOB filter with chemicals, I would wait and give the tank a few months so you can get an idea of how things are working and settling. If for some reason you end up needing additional filtration you can start using one of the filters you have; easy. Don't worry about it for now. As GD has stressed, in a small tank like that water changes are important and will provide a lot of the filtration of the tank. When you remove that water you are taking out a lot of the dissolved organics that something like carbon or chemipure would remove. So to have both is redundant, and can potentially cause other problems. If you have a minijet 404 you are not using, you might as well just use that in your tank. I have 2 of them and they are very nice. Small, quiet, and adjustable, so if you find you have too much current in that little tank then just adjust it down a little. Having said that, the Tunze he showed you is only $12, and looks pretty cool :lol: . Up to you. One question I would like to ask you is, how tall is the tank? I am not familiar with the dimensions of a 5 gallon. The depth of the tank will be important when looking at which corals will thrive under your lights. And as far as lights, my recommendation would be to get the most light you can over the tank. It will give you more options for corals, and it will help them grow and fill your tank faster.

 

[saltman123]

Again, thanks for the details.

Sand/Substrate
So it seems like I will be finding some sand that is recommended, or whatever my LFS recommends.

Live Rock
Same with the live rock. I am going to look for what is cool looking and what seems to fit nicely into the tank. I've priced the rock locally and it seems to range in the $6.99 to $9.99 per pound range more towards the $9 range. I figure I will try to find some really nice cured stuff since I will be driving it home and putting it directly into my tank.

Powerhead
I am going to order up one of those Tunze Mini's for the time. If I then need more I will drop in the minijet. I like how teeny that Tunze is and the review so far seem to be good. I am sold

Test Kit
I am going to grab that kit and go from there. I am very aware of all of those tests since I used to do these religiously with my Freshwater Stingray. I did it literally every day or so since the ammonia spike would rise out of no where and I didn't want to take any chances. So I should be all set on that.

I think I'm also gonna bite the bullet and go with a refractometer too over the junky arm hydrometer.

Filtration
So I guess it seems like a filter is not fully necessary if you stick to the water changes. I guess it is just my past experience and my common sense kicking in feeling that I NEED some type of filtration. I guess that is just how it always seems since all tanks have a filter. I have a few different HOB's around so I can always try one later. For now I will take your recommendation and maybe just put it on for cirulation for now.

Lighting/Tank Height
Take a look at this link with a quick dimension sketch of my tank.

Picture Link with Dimensions

It has that hex looking front to it, sort of like a wanna be bow I know I know! Its old school....but its what I have around I guess. The tank is 10.5 inches tall or so. Take a look at this and let me know what you all think. Eventually I will take an actual pic of it

To add some more to it, the guy at one of my LFS that has immaculate and some of the most incredible tanks I have ever seen gave me advice to NOT run a nano like this at all. He said that at best, I should be purchasing a nano cube 6 gallon for these reasons:
- The lighting on this setup is going to make the water way too hot (86 Degree at best)
- The tank is just too damn small and that the nano cube has lots figured out.

So my question is, will I be boiling the tank? It seems like a lot of you have successful tanks so with some help I am sure I can get it to work.

I think I am going to go against his suggestion of not doing it and give it a try. If countless people have been successful, there is no reason why I can't do it too. I've proved myself in the past so I am up to at least give it a try

THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!!
Any feedback on that appreciated

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, looks good.. - I would just double-check the 24w light to make sure that the legs won't be hanging in mid-air where the 45° glass departs from the 16" line.. If it'll still be able to perch on it then go for that. Otherwise I'd try to make the 2x9w PC setup work.

Sounds like your LFS guy was just trying to make a drygoods sale. I would've said he might be trying to do right by steering a new reefer away from a nano (which could be certain disaster for someone who doesn't have a good source of information like reefs.org to turn to) but to turn around and try talking you into a 6g cube??? It looks like a sale is all he really had in mind.. :?


On the filtration... - You just gotta keep saying to yourself, "The rock is now my filter.. The rock is now my filter.." -- You don't want to blast stuff off of it, but if you can get some of the current flowing over parts of the rock, all the better..

But.... - Never lose track of 'routine maintenance' job #1 with a nano... - WATER CHANGES! --- Even if you do everything else just right, water changes can really make or break a nano.


And... - If by some stretch your LFS guy turns out to be right about the temp (which I VERY highly doubt) you can easily counter this with a few different options too..

Set it up with just water and sand and get it going.. - If it looks like temp might be a problem, come on back here and ask what can be done. - Theres 3 things I can think of right off the top of my head and I'm sure others out there have other ideas as well.

Oh, and you DO have a source for good, clean (RO : RO/DI) water too right?

 

[saltman123]

Thanks again!

Yeah, I kind of felt the "dry good sale" coming on as well. I let him know I already had a bigger tank but was waiting to start it. He suggested either getting the nano, or waiting. I am gonna go for it anyways

As far as RO water, I do not have a system yet. I was thinking since my tank is super small, I could just start out with bottled water and invest into a decent RO system soon. I've heard others on the board say they have used the water at walmart labeled "Reverse Osmosis", and also the "Distilled water". My thought was to buy a few jugs and test the water out of the bottle. If all check out to go this route for now. Is this ideal for now just to get the tank moving?

Reverse Osmosis system
I see a few on eBay. I guess when that time comes I will ask questions on the exact systems I find. I definitely don't want to spend a ton, but I do want a system that I will be able to later use when I get a bigger tank. I've seen the 50 GPD, 100GPD, 3 stage, 4 stage. All sorts of stuff. Any good ones sub $100??

Substrate
Can you help me understand which of these substrates is an ideal one to start with? I was thinking either the Special Grade Reef Sand or AGAR-Alive bags? Thoughts?

Substrates

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah... - Wallyworld RO water should be ok until you can get your own RO/DI setup.. (The DI helps a bit.. - Brings the TDS down to 0..) -- You may want to ask your LFS if they have RO water you can buy from them too... - And you can have them show you the TDS of it too.. (They really should have both if they're a good LFS...)

Speaking of which... - A TDS meter to check the function of your RO once you get one is a good idea too.

On the sand... - Either is ok, but the "alive" part of the arag-alive isn't likely to still be alive, so don't let that be a determining factor for you..

Hope that helps,
Norm

 

[saltman123]

I'm definitely getting just about close enough to get this tank up and running with all of the info you have shared.

I have my testing kit and a Tunze power filter on order. I am also going to decide and order a refracometer asap as well.

I called up a different LFS and they said they would be glad to help me with a nano tank. So I may have found the shop I will be relying on from here on out for the Local needs. They also told me that they sell R/O water for $1.25 for fresh a gallon, and $1.75 already mixed. Is this a high price? Its definitely high comparing from walmart water but I guess that may be the going rate from a specialty shop. At that rate I will definitely be buying an R/O system sooner than later

What exactly is DI? Distilled water? I read the labels at walmart and they read 2.5 gallon at $2.67 or so reverse osmosis. The Distilled water was .67 a gallon. Is one a better choice over the other? I figure for now I may just buy it from the fish store, along with some sand and live rock one time. I will only be using 5 gallons and then will probably pick up an extra few gallons for evaporation.

I am definitely excited to be almost there

So, the main things I need to start the tank are:
1-The tank
2-A powerhead
3-Water Test Kit
4-Salt
5-Salt Tester-Hydromenter-Refractrometer
6-Heater
7-Lighting (I still need to decide on this)

Lighting
Is the lighting crucial when starting the tank cycling if starting with established live rock and sand? I have the current hood which has normal glass bulbs, the typical kind you see in the store. Are those ideal for now?

Also, if the tanks aren't covered, as many don't look like they are, does the splash actually hit the bulbs? Or do people all cover them with a plastic so they aren't exposed? It may be obvious they are covered but from what I've seen online it seems like many bulbs are exposed. is that ok? The tank has a piece of plexy glass that can be put over the top but it may get too hot in the tank then. The Coralife PC 2X9 looks like it would fit nicely over that while the Odeyssea looks like the arms will hold it nicely over the tank where I may be able to leave the top open. The 2 lights are above. Or, can wing the stong top for now with average bulbs.

Almost getting there Thanks for the help. You are the man Norm/GratefulDiver!!!!!