Since I have had my tank setup for approx 3 months now. I set my tank up with a 6 to 8 inch sand bed (that is what the LFS owner said would do great in my tank). I am still having a big problem. From starting with high ammonia, then red hair algae, and now to a major problem of nitrate. I have been testing and testing and testing. I have done major water changes well should I say I started off small (10 gal then 2 days ago 20 gal) and my nitrates are still at 30 on the seachem test kit this is also with a purigen nitrate removal bag for the past three days in my sump too. What lse can I do? Will my nitrates keep rising? My fish look like they are breathing a little fast also. I think that is due to my nitrates being high correct ? Could the deep sand bed be the problem, or is there something else?
Deep sand bed ?
- Thread starter The Chefin' man
- Start date
Sorry about that. I have approx. 150 lbs of live rock in the display and another 30 in the sump (it is waiting for another tank). The tank is a 90 AGA with a mega overflow and a #2 Oceanic sump and a AquaC EV-240 protein skimmer. As for extra (or chemical filtration I just use live rock). Is there something else that I need to use like carbonl in the sump?
Carbon doesn't really affect the Nitrogen cycle thing. My understanding is that it mostly helps ward off strange smells. I don't know how you got your live rock, but maybe you're still in the process of curing. You had your Ammonia spike and presumably your Nitrite spike. Now you're getting the last stage with the Nitates. As far as I know, the only cure is to keep up with heavy duty water changes so the levels stay low enough that the critters you bought so far don't die. Eventually, the ecosystem within your liverocks will hopefully catch up to speed and control nitrates for you. Good circulation through you live rock helps with that.
I should say that, personally, I've never really experienced nitrogen spikes. I bought live rock that was cured by the fish store, so it was ready for fish as soon as I put it in the tank (I still waited a month to be sure). So someone should confirm what I just said, but that's what I'm thinking is the problem.
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Mercedes Benz SL Class
I should say that, personally, I've never really experienced nitrogen spikes. I bought live rock that was cured by the fish store, so it was ready for fish as soon as I put it in the tank (I still waited a month to be sure). So someone should confirm what I just said, but that's what I'm thinking is the problem.
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Mercedes Benz SL Class
For my live stock I have a yellow tang, potters coral, 2 per clowns, blue hippo tang, and a blue sided wrasse. As for anomones I have 2 green bubble tips, 2 rose tips, and 2 green leathers. I also have various crabs and snails, also lettuce neudi's. I also have other various soft corals. As for my water I use Ro/Di with Instant Ocean. Which I am getting ready to switch to Tropic Marin after the first of the year. Oh! One more reply sorry 90 lbs came from a prevoius tank that had been running for 6 months and cured before put in tank. The rest of the rock was Marshall and was sitting (curing) for 3 months before I picked them up.
IME it takes a while for sandbed - especially one that deep - to become well established and provide significant filtration. That said, with the amount of live rock and the skimmer you have you should be OK with little to no sand IMO. Your problem might lie elsewhere...
How often and what do you feed?
What do you have for circulation in the main tank?
How well is your skimmer working (ie. does it produce significant quantities of skimmate daily)?
Do you test the purity of your RO/DI product water?
How often and what do you feed?
What do you have for circulation in the main tank?
How well is your skimmer working (ie. does it produce significant quantities of skimmate daily)?
Do you test the purity of your RO/DI product water?
How often and what do you feed?
twice a day they get mysis, Thera A+, brine shrimp (shredded)
once a day they get grown caulerpa (from the overflow and brineshrimp (shredded)
What do you have for circulation in the main tank? approx. 1000 gal from the return and two maxi jet power heads (temp)
How well is your skimmer working (ie. does it produce significant quantities of skimmate daily)? It works really good I have to clean every 4 days.
Do you test the purity of your RO/DI product water? I have a professional water company for a water supply. They come out and test. The companies name is Culligan.
twice a day they get mysis, Thera A+, brine shrimp (shredded)
once a day they get grown caulerpa (from the overflow and brineshrimp (shredded)
What do you have for circulation in the main tank? approx. 1000 gal from the return and two maxi jet power heads (temp)
How well is your skimmer working (ie. does it produce significant quantities of skimmate daily)? It works really good I have to clean every 4 days.
Do you test the purity of your RO/DI product water? I have a professional water company for a water supply. They come out and test. The companies name is Culligan.
Doesn't sound like you have much for circulation. Do you ever blast the rockwork with a powerhead to clean out the detritus? Aggressively exporting detritus like that can make a major difference in water quality. Also, having strong circulation to begin-with can help prevent detritus build-up.
Other than that, nothing sounds too crazy. Have you tested with another kit or brought a water sample to your LFS or a fellow reefer to confirm the readings?
I wouldn't worry too much about the fish - nitrate is not all that toxic to fish (moreso to inverts). IMO, it is an indicator of poor nutrient input/export balance though (which would also explain the nuisance algae problems).
Other than that, nothing sounds too crazy. Have you tested with another kit or brought a water sample to your LFS or a fellow reefer to confirm the readings?
I wouldn't worry too much about the fish - nitrate is not all that toxic to fish (moreso to inverts). IMO, it is an indicator of poor nutrient input/export balance though (which would also explain the nuisance algae problems).
Hey Chris
Just the other day I had to remove all of my rock to get my flame angel out (she had to go) do to the potters coral that I got for 10 bucks ( she was a 100 dollar fish) so which would you choose? But Like I said I had to remove all of the rock and put them into clean holding tank. This pretty much washed them because when I when I put them back into the display tank the water from the holding tank was pretty nasty. Also how many power heads and what kind should I use for extra flow in the tank? Where should I put them? I thought that I would have enough with the 1000 gph from the sump.
Just the other day I had to remove all of my rock to get my flame angel out (she had to go) do to the potters coral that I got for 10 bucks ( she was a 100 dollar fish) so which would you choose? But Like I said I had to remove all of the rock and put them into clean holding tank. This pretty much washed them because when I when I put them back into the display tank the water from the holding tank was pretty nasty. Also how many power heads and what kind should I use for extra flow in the tank? Where should I put them? I thought that I would have enough with the 1000 gph from the sump.
For a reef tank the general consenus is to have a minimum of 30x turnover in the tank. Of course some do it with less but you know the "there's always the exception" rule. For your 90G you will want approx. 2700GPH of turnover. Even if you have the initial 1000 and two MJ1200s your still lacking about 1000GPH in the tank. Of course it will seem like alot when you put that extra in but you and your corals will get used to it.
Also, IMO I think you might be feeding a little heavy. I feed my 120 with eight fish, the equivelant of one cube daily.
Also, IMO I think you might be feeding a little heavy. I feed my 120 with eight fish, the equivelant of one cube daily.
I think you are feeding on the heavy side as well. You are feeding the fish, but you do not have much as far as nutrient export. You have caulerpa growing in the sump, but you feed it back to the fish, cycling the stored nutrient in the caulerpa back to the system.
Nitrate is continuously building up for most of the fish/coral tanks. Skimmer would remove some raw form of nutrient source, but won't help much in terms of nitrate in the water.
Either you change water more frequently, or feed less, or harvest more caulerpa out of your system, or combinations of the above.
I have the same problem as you for a newly setup system. I am researching into a denitrator, that setup an environment suitable for bacteria to consume nitrate. As I have no previous experience with these denitrator system, thus I cannot comment more on these units. But I hope it work as claimed.
Nitrate is continuously building up for most of the fish/coral tanks. Skimmer would remove some raw form of nutrient source, but won't help much in terms of nitrate in the water.
Either you change water more frequently, or feed less, or harvest more caulerpa out of your system, or combinations of the above.
I have the same problem as you for a newly setup system. I am researching into a denitrator, that setup an environment suitable for bacteria to consume nitrate. As I have no previous experience with these denitrator system, thus I cannot comment more on these units. But I hope it work as claimed.
I'd try upping the circulation. I agree with Danm and Trido that you could cut back on the feeding a bit. Also, straining frozen foods (discard liquid) in a net before adding to the tank can really help reduce nutrient input into the system.
I have to say that your tank is newly established. I didn't get things set until about 8 months or so. I was fighting everything until then. I would just let the tank settle in, it sounds like you are in a better position that I was after 3 months. That sand bed is thick and in time will do it's job if it hasn't started already. How expensive was that? I have crushed coral and i want to get a dsb but it looks like it will cost me over 300 dollars or so if not more.
I did buy a denitrater unit and it worked absolutley perfectly. I would have given up if it wasn't for it. I don't need it anymore now i have a sandbed in my fuge and water parameters are perfect.
www.midwestaquatic.com is the link if anybody wan't a quality denitrator.
or I'll sell mine half price lol
merry chritmas everybody!
what you cooking chefin' man?
I did buy a denitrater unit and it worked absolutley perfectly. I would have given up if it wasn't for it. I don't need it anymore now i have a sandbed in my fuge and water parameters are perfect.
www.midwestaquatic.com is the link if anybody wan't a quality denitrator.
or I'll sell mine half price lol
merry chritmas everybody!
what you cooking chefin' man?
Merry Christmas to all!
We are having Sushi (fresh out of the tank) hehehehe just kidding!
Acutally, I am going to keep doing the large amount of water changes on a weekly basis and not mess with getting anymore fish or corals. A am going to add more circulation but I might work it a different way. I am thinking about something like the oceans motions (but cheaper). I have to figure out how to work it out with having a mega flow system (because they really are not all that great of a setup). I will just work my circ that way. Oh! How does Oysters Bieneville, stuffed mushrooms, Beef wellington, fresh vegetables, and mom is doing the deserts. We are also having tea smoked duck.
We are having Sushi (fresh out of the tank) hehehehe just kidding!
Acutally, I am going to keep doing the large amount of water changes on a weekly basis and not mess with getting anymore fish or corals. A am going to add more circulation but I might work it a different way. I am thinking about something like the oceans motions (but cheaper). I have to figure out how to work it out with having a mega flow system (because they really are not all that great of a setup). I will just work my circ that way. Oh! How does Oysters Bieneville, stuffed mushrooms, Beef wellington, fresh vegetables, and mom is doing the deserts. We are also having tea smoked duck.
I found the reciept for the sand purchase last night but trew the damn thing away and did not look at the price either. I bought 80 lbs of dry agronite and 160 of wet agronite. Also my buddy did not give me a break on it because I remember being a little pissed off that he did not give me one this time. After spending approx. 3500 in a short time real fast.
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