Cheap and easy sump?

[fedlund]

I have jus bought a tank, I bought one pre-drilled so that i could get a sump into it and I considering how to approach the whole thing. I can see myself falling into a lot of traps.

currently my tank has a fluval 305 attached to the pre drilled holes. but i want to get rid of this in favour of a sump

what worries me:

The intake tube is lower than the outtake, if i attach my own sump whats to stop the water flowing in? i have heard of valves, where do I get them? alternatively i have heard of drilling a hole in the intake tube, to stop the siphon effect, but seeing as the intake tube is pretty low down and is gravity fed, i dont think this will work.

An idea I had for building a sump was to create a kind of russian doll system, by putting one plastic container inside the other in a step system the intake being in the middle and highest and the outake the outside and largest plastic container. does this make sense is there something i need to think about which I am completely missing?

What are the golden rules for a sump?

I am looking to put a skimmer, a heater, a UV filter (maybe need to research more), live rock and sand. I think that the live rock and skimmer should be in the first compartment the UV in the second, then an out pump in the last.


clear as mud?

Many thanks for any input, everywhere I have read seems to make assumptions that you already know a thing or two about sumps

 

[ezrec]

My system uses a treat-grow-sump system:

* First section is connected to the overflow, with a waterline about 2" below the top of the container.
- Skimmer
- Heater
* Second section has the same water line as the first.
- Sand bed
- Mangroves
- Cheato Algea (in the mail!)
- Grow light
* Third section has enough capacity to hold the entire overflow of the tank, if the tank was filled to the brim. Its maxium waterline is below all the others.
- Sump pump to return (could be external pump, I use a power head, some 1/2" CPVC, valves, and a garden hose!)

Make sure to test your system for both power failure (sump doesn't run) and overflow clog (tank doesn't overflow).

Pictures of my setup (Mark III) are at:

http://www.evillabs.net/wiki/index.php/Reef_Aquaria

 

[Anonymous]

On the intake, have an elbow joint and pipe it up to above the water level before you pipe it down to the sump.

 

[ezrec]

On the intake, have an elbow joint and pipe it up to above the water level before you pipe it down to the sump.

Uh, that's still a siphon.

The best solution would be to swap the intake and the outflow, if possible.

Otherwise, either:

(a) have a sump capactity big enough to hold the entire overflow capacity (231 cubic inces = 1 gallon!) or

(b) put an elbow inside the tank, pointing up, with a piece of PVC that goes to just below the waterline. It'll reduce the skim flow considerably, but at least you'll be able to sleep at night.

IE:

           /--- Water Line     |
          V                    |
-------------------------------|
      ______                   |
     |      | <- PVC  --       |
     |______|           |      |
    |        |          |      |
    |         \____     V     /|
    |              |---------| |
      \            |         | |
        \          |---------| |
          ---------           \|
                               |

My ASCII-Art Fu Is Better Than You!

 

[SnowManSnow]

That looks wicked complicated. Thus the issues you're having.

Why not do it in a more conventional way?

Just curious.

B

 

[fedlund]

Ok, just to clarify the tank is predrilled with two holes in the bottom of the tank.

I suppose some of you are right I need to heighten the intake tube so that it reaches closer to the surface. In this way only the water between the top of the tube and the surface will flow in.

Why would I need an elbow on it?

 

[Anonymous]

Your tank has the holes drilled in the bottom? Who drilled the holes?

Is it an AGA tank, with the built in black overflow. with the holes inside the overflow?

 

[fedlund]

No, it's got hole in the bottom.

Its a fluval vincenza. I got it because it had holes in the bottom pre-drilled, it seemed like a neat solution, and it was cheaper than all other pre drilled i could find.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe a photo would help? I cannot visualize why someone would drill a hole in the bottom of a tank. It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. A pump or GFCI malfunctions and the whole tank drains?

 

[ezrec]

Usually, such 'drilled bottom' tanks have the hole in the bottom of a corner overflow weir. The worst that could happen (barring a leak in the weir itself) is you dump your overflow water into the sump.

And you *did* properly size your sump to hold all that, didn't you?

 

[fedlund]

That s the whole point of this post, I have not built it yet and I am looking for tips on how to go about it, i've seen drawings and designs, but they seem to miss the most important part, getting water in and out of the tank.

anywy my tank is on this brochure: http://www.hagen.com/uk/aquatic/addinfo ... ure-07.pdf
the vincenza 260, you can see the two holes in the corner. it comes with a easy connect system that allows me to attach intake and outtake tubes to the holes which will hopefully remain sealed.

 

[ezrec]

Ok, I've looked at the brochure.

Your best option is to put in an overflow wier around the outflow bulkhead, and use a Durso standpipe:

http://www.dursostandpipes.com/

That will be quiet, cheap to implement, and even if the wier fails,
you will only lose ~4 inches of water level.

For the inflow, make sure that the pipe coming up (I recommend black ABS pipe) has the output nozzle as close to the waterline as possible.

A DIY eductor on the inflow port will ensure good current flow.

http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23330

 

[fedlund]

Thanks Ezrec,

I see you have done your sump on the cheap, just what i am looking for.

Any tips on getting these plastic bins, what i should look out for etc?

how did you connect them?

 

[cindre2000]

Because your aquarium is designed for freshwater it needs to be modified for salt water. What most people do (to improve aesthetics) is partition a small section of the aquarium off. This partitioned section is called the overflow or overflow box. Within this box, you have your drain and possibly your return. This allows for the PVC on the drain and the return to be hidden, and it allows for a thiner sheet of water to go into the overflow. You can also modify the standpipe of the drain to reduce the noise.

Try to look at pictures of peoples tanks, that should help now. There are a lot of different designs; you probably will just need to buy two or three pieces of glass and some aquarium silicone to make an overflow.

 

[fedlund]

aaah ok, so you need to make an overflow box first?

 

[cindre2000]

Yep, the overflow box determines and maintains the hight of the water in the tank.

 

[ezrec]

Plastic bins:

* Must be watertight. Ikea sells a nice selection, available in their housewares section.

* Polypropylene cannot be reliably glued. Make sure your bin is the right shape and size for under your cabnet, because, other than cutting holes in it, you cannot glue it!

* I used standard aquarium bulkheads with PVC slip connections, and used PVC pipe to connect them. Make sure to use 'Unions' between each section for easy repair/replacement down the road.

* Make sure to allow for at least 2" above the top of the bulkheads for water to rise if you are using 1" bulkheads.

* Do a freshwater test with a bucket-as-aquarium to test that is leakproof.

* ENSURE that your sump has the capacity to hold *all* of your overflow. I cannot stress this enough!

The best calculation I ever did was calculating the 'gallons per inch' of my aquarium. Makes figuring out water levels a snap.

For example, my aquarium (a 55 gallon) is 2.6 gallons/inch. That means, that if I want a 2" overflow head on my siphon, I have to have a 6 gallon sump (5.2 gallons holding capacity, and 0.4 gallons of "that which the pump can't pump" )

 

[fedlund]

In theory I don't need an overflow box just an elbow close to the surface of the tank which ensures that if the outpump fails then only so much water as is above the bottom of the elbow will siphon out of the tank right?

Also I should get an overflow weir (which I am unsure what it is).

and that should be enough to use to make a sump?

now...: the overflow box is an extra right? 1st removes the surface water of the tank which is good because you get rid of surface scum, 2nd it hides ugly pvc pipes?, 3rd it creates a kind of refugium, 4th if all else fails and you have a major leakage "only" the water in the over flow box will potentially leak out? so its a worthwile extra...

 

[ezrec]

I would recommend an overflow box, because - ideally - you want to siphon out only the top 1/2" of 'skin' of the water column, and an overflow box will provide a larger linear area of skimming.

I am running into this problem with my box-less siphon setup, in that I am only skimming ~3 linear inches of the surface, and I am having 'skin' build up. (I am working on the Mark IV design, and will post it once constructed)

An overflow weir = overflow box. A weir is a box with 1/2" slits cut at 1/2" intervals around it, to skim the water without sucking in snails and such.

And yes, it is a worthwile 'extra'. You can make your own simply out of two pieces of 1/4" smoked acrylic and aquarium silicone sealant. Make sure to brace the bottom of the box with an "L" shaped piece of acrylic, or the bottom of the box will cave in under water pressure!