Help, it seems white spot disease tp me

[Anonymous]

a UV Sterilizer will do nothing at all for a fish that is already infested with ich or some other parasite, that is unless your trying to shove said fish through the UVS, and then I pretty sure you end up with a dead fish anyhow.

That's not true. The swimming stage of cryptocarian is what you can go after with the UV. That stage is quadradic in nature. So, if you started with a UV to begin with, you kill the quadradic curve. My fish were loaded with crypto - and they were able to pull through.

 

[Anonymous]

I used kick-ich and it seemed to have worked a couple of years ago.

Got rid of it, no deaths.

Never seen it since.

PS...Yes, I know it could have been due to other factors...just throwing my .02 in.

PPS...does uv work?

 

[Anonymous]

a UV Sterilizer will do nothing at all for a fish that is already infested with ich or some other parasite, that is unless your trying to shove said fish through the UVS, and then I pretty sure you end up with a dead fish anyhow.

That's not true. The swimming stage of cryptocarian is what you can go after with the UV. That stage is quadradic in nature. So, if you started with a UV to begin with, you kill the quadradic curve. My fish were loaded with crypto - and they were able to pull through.

your reading comprehension still isnt very good up here with all the light is it?
a fish already infested with a parasite will live or die, according to its present strength and ability to overcome said parasites- a UVS will not cure the fish of the parasites that are presently attached to said fish.
Again, unless you cram said fish through the UV, and all that will do is squish the fish.

 

[Anonymous]

a UV Sterilizer will do nothing at all for a fish that is already infested with ich or some other parasite, that is unless your trying to shove said fish through the UVS, and then I pretty sure you end up with a dead fish anyhow.

That's not true. The swimming stage of cryptocarian is what you can go after with the UV. That stage is quadradic in nature. So, if you started with a UV to begin with, you kill the quadradic curve. My fish were loaded with crypto - and they were able to pull through.

your reading comprehension still isnt very good up here with all the light is it?
a fish already infested with a parasite will live or die, according to its present strength and ability to overcome said parasites- a UVS will not cure the fish of the parasites that are presently attached to said fish.
Again, unless you cram said fish through the UV, and all that will do is squish the fish.

Hmmm...so you are saying DONT squish the fish through?

 

[Anonymous]

a UV Sterilizer will do nothing at all for a fish that is already infested with ich or some other parasite, that is unless your trying to shove said fish through the UVS, and then I pretty sure you end up with a dead fish anyhow.

That's not true. The swimming stage of cryptocarian is what you can go after with the UV. That stage is quadradic in nature. So, if you started with a UV to begin with, you kill the quadradic curve. My fish were loaded with crypto - and they were able to pull through.

your reading comprehension still isnt very good up here with all the light is it?
a fish already infested with a parasite will live or die, according to its present strength and ability to overcome said parasites- a UVS will not cure the fish of the parasites that are presently attached to said fish.
Again, unless you cram said fish through the UV, and all that will do is squish the fish.

Ask Chrissy - she finally went UV and has the fish to prove it. I can give you countless stories of dead fish because they listen to the hyposalinity, copper, and chemical stories only to have their fish die.

Do what you want- you'll end up buying new everything when you nuke your tank. Enjoy the bills.

 

[ChrisRD]

Having fish that have survived a bout with ich isn't really proof of much since many fish recover from a minor infestation with/without UVs, treatment, etc. IME if the fish are eating well and not overly stressed they'll survive it. The parasite is still in the system - just at a subclinical level (ie. not visible). This is where the common misconception comes from that ich is "always present".

UVs were once standard issue on saltwater tanks. These days most folks realize that they are far better at combatting bacterial and phytoplankton blooms than at treating ectoparasites, so most of us don't bother with them on home aquaria anymore.

I haven't used a UV unit in over a decade and I've not lost a single fish from ich in all that time. Ironically, the last time I had an issue with ich was in a system that had a UV unit on it (a very good quality, very expensive UV at that).

These days I can't think of a single reefer I know that uses a UV anymore and nobody seems to be having problems with ich.

Maybe we're just lucky. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

fine.

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't used a UV unit in over a decade and I've not lost a single fish from ich in all that time.

Same here.
I think a UV sterilizer is really of little use on a reef tank.

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't used a UV unit in over a decade and I've not lost a single fish from ich in all that time.

Same here.
I think a UV sterilizer is really of little use on a reef tank.

Both of you are clearly experts.

 

[Anonymous]

I am just giving my opinion.
I don't claim to be any kind of expert.

You sure don't handle people disagreeing with you very well.

 

[Anonymous]

:mod hat on:

Please keep the arguing down stairs

:mod hat off:

 

[Anonymous]

I am just giving my opinion.
I don't claim to be any kind of expert.

You sure don't handle people disagreeing with you very well.

It's not that I don't handle people disagreeing with me - I find it incredibly ironic that the same people who would say don't put a tang in a 55 gallon tank would say - but take all your fish out of the tank - chase them all around until you destroy all your rockwork, inverts and upset any kind of possible balance that you're trying to achieve and put them in a QT tank - medicate them and stress them out.

Or, bring the salinity down low enough to kill all your inverts - killing the PH, and recreating a cycle just to kill cryptocarion.

That's what I disagree with. You're asking a new person to keep everything in balance - something that might be easy for someone who's been doing this for 15 years, but incredibly hard for someone who just got in the hobby for 2 months.

Not only that - but how many people here have access to another fishtank large enough for a tang as a QT? Granted this case it's a clown, but I think you get my drift.

Why am I "testy" on this? Because I lost - 4 clownfish, 2 tangs, 2 gobies, 4 dwarf angles, countless inverts - all because I listened to the advice here. Until finally someone said - add a UV. Guess what? Those fish would be alive today if I added a UV sooner than I did. So for 200 bucks, I would have had a much nicer tank faster than goofing off with all the other junk.

Would I QT now? Absolutely. But once crypto enters your main display tank - you've got a problem. Lowering the salinity over the course of 40 days will work - but it will also kill your inverts, your PH, etc.

You might say - you shouldn't get in the hobby if you don't do it correctly. True- but how many people actually do it correctly the first time around- or have the budget, time, or energy to do so?

 

[ChrisRD]

I think you'd get your point across more effectively if you tried a different approach...

When you say things like this...

take all your fish out of the tank - chase them all around until you destroy all your rockwork, inverts and upset any kind of possible balance that you're trying to achieve and put them in a QT tank - medicate them and stress them out.

...it makes it seem like you're more interested in sounding dramatic than conveying real information. IMO that takes away from the validity of your statements.

There are plenty of ways to remove fish from an established tank without "chasing them around until you destroy your rockwork", etc...

Or, bring the salinity down low enough to kill all your inverts - killing the PH, and recreating a cycle just to kill cryptocarion.

This shouldn't be an issue - nobody I know advocates hyposalinity treatment in the main tank.

Not only that - but how many people here have access to another fishtank large enough for a tang as a QT?

QTing a fish in a tank smaller than what it needs for long term survival is a common and perfectly acceptable practice. Also, a "Q-tank" doesn't necessarily have to be an aquarium.

Why am I "testy" on this? Because I lost - 4 clownfish, 2 tangs, 2 gobies, 4 dwarf angles, countless inverts - all because I listened to the advice here.

Honestly, you've already killed more fish than I have in 15 years in the hobby. I think you have to take some of the credit for that...

Those fish would be alive today if I added a UV sooner than I did.

Not necessarily true.

Would I QT now? Absolutely.

This seems contradictory to some of your other posts where you claim a UV unit is all that's needed. Why would you bother with QT if a UV unit negates the need to do so?

But once crypto enters your main display tank - you've got a problem.

Yes, which is why people should QT.

Lowering the salinity over the course of 40 days will work - but it will also kill your inverts, your PH, etc.

That's why it's done in a separate tank/container, not in the display.

You might say - you shouldn't get in the hobby if you don't do it correctly. True- but how many people actually do it correctly the first time around- or have the budget, time, or energy to do so?

This is the weakest part of your argument IMO. If you don't have the budget, or don't want to take the time to learn how to do it right, you really shouldn't take live animals into your care. The purpose of boards like this and these discussions is to educate folks about these very issues.

 

[ChrisRD]

I am just giving my opinion.
I don't claim to be any kind of expert.

Ditto!

...and FWIW, I'm not an advocate of tearing apart your tank and treating all your fish because you see a few spots on one of them.

Actually, I prefer to keep conditions optimal, keep the fish well fed and unstressed, and let minor issues resolve themselves. IME you usually do more harm than good trying to treat every little problem.

In the case of serious infestations, however, as is clearly the case with the clown in the pic, sometimes that's not an option and something probably has to be done if you want the fish to survive.

...again JMO, as always.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I'm going to join the chorus of people that disagree with adding a UV sterilizer to combat Cryptocaryon.

It's a good idea to have a quarantine tank for the future in any case. It needn't be elaborate. In the past I have used a 55 gallon BRUTE Rubbermaid garbage can with a power filter, heater, and an air stone. Some PVC pipe for hiding places are nice too. This can be had for less than $150. Do the hypo, kill the parasite, and then QT all future fish.

Adding a UV will, IMHO, likely result in an indefinite string of reoccurring outbreaks. It's not a fun parasite to deal with.

 

[Anonymous]

Clearly I'm not the only one who believes this.

Treatment Option 9: U.V. Sterilization

Ultraviolet sterilizers work by damaging most anything in the water column that passes through them. Their effectiveness is dependent on the wattage of the unit, the flow rate through the unit, the age of the lamp, the volume of the water being treated, the cleanliness of the sleeve, the clarity of the water, and the decorations (potential hiding spots for tomonts) in the aquarium (Moe, 1989). Colorni & Burgess (1997) discuss the use of UV. They extrapolate from a previous study done on freshwater Ich, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, and UV (If you are so interested, the original article is Gratzek, Gilbert, Lohr, Shotts, and Brown's 1983 piece "Ultraviolet light control of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis in a closed fish culture recirculation system." It can be found in the Journal of Fish Diseases volume 6 pages 145-153). In the study, they showed UV could prevent the spread of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis when used on a central system, but could not affect a cure within an individual aquarium. Colorni and Burgess believe the same would hold true with Cryptocaryon irritans. I would concur with them as my own personal/professional experience has demonstrated the same. I have found UV's to be very effective in bare bottom tanks, primarily in retail and wholesale operations. In display aquaria, the volume of the tank, the substrate and rockwork, the flow rate of the UV, and the wattage all work against its effectiveness. In commercial operations, many times, employees wipe down bare bottom tanks daily to maintain a clean appearance for customers. This has the added benefit of knocking loose the cyst stage of the parasite. The bare bottom, minimal decoration, high flow rates, and massive UV units on these systems ensure that most all the cysts and theronts pass through the sterilizer and are neutralized.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/s ... /index.php

 

[Anonymous]

Another good article:

The UV Sterilizer: Friend or Foe
by Michael G. Livadas

Are you tired of marine fish deaths, constant water changes caused by medicinal treatments, algae blooms, and common saltwater diseases? What can an aquarist do to battle these menacing and frustrating experiences? Well, this article will address these issues and more by discussing a helpful, yet slightly complex piece of machinery called the Ultra Violet Sterilizer.

The UV sterilizer is a tool used by many marine aquarists to combat and kill harmful, waterborne bacteria, viruses, fungi, and small protozoans, which may turn a beautiful and peaceful aquarium into a deadly nightmare. The UV unit also helps control algae blooms by killing waterborne algae. My introduction to the UV sterilizer derived from a challenging battle with a common marine fish disease called Cryptocaryon (ICH). After analyzing my unfortunate situation, I concluded many variables (overstocking, filter maintenance, new fish introductions, etc.) to the cause of my dilemma. The problem and its causes were eventually resolved; however, fish lives were lost. To a true marine aquarist, a lost fish symbolizes failure and an opportunity for improvement. I consulted a local reliable pet store for techniques on how to avoid common marine fish diseases. The UV sterilizer was mentioned during the inquiry, but initially discounted because of cost (15 watt - $119). I researched my options and eventually concluded that the UV sterilizer would help me provide superior water conditions for my marine aquarium inhabitants.

The UV sterilizer was rushed home and immediately hooked up to my Fluval 403 canister filter. I witnessed positive results in only 48 hours of the initial hook up. My marine aquarium water looked flawless - crystal clear. My yellow tang (zebrasoma flavescens), once light yellow, turned bright yellow. The other tankmates looked rejuvenated and lively. I immediately thought to myself, "Gee that UV sterilizer is the best thing since sliced bread. My marine fish headaches are over." Well, yes and no. Yes, the UV sterilizer has provided months of clear and somewhat safe water conditions for my marine inhabitants, but after six months I have to take apart the whole unit and change the bulb and clean it! The disease headache turned into a cleaning headache. The UV bulb loses its effectiveness -kill ratio- after six months and must be replaced. Due to its exposure to water, biological slime builds up on the bulb surface, which greatly reduces the efficiency of the unit.

The "kill" efficiency of the UV sterilizer depends upon several variables listed below:

The available energy (wattage) of the bulb (4, 8, 15, 30 and 50 watts). · Age of the bulb (greater than 6 months). · The species and individual characteristics (age and size) of the microorganisms.
Temperature of the bulb and system (106 degrees F). · Distance between the bulb and the target organism - (2 inches).

Presence of slime and other biological or mineral deposits on the bulb surface. · Duration and intensity of exposure, flow rate of water through the unit (25 to 30 gallons per hour per watt).

Placement of the unit. Connect the unit to the end of the filter line, before the water returns to the tank. This will provide maximum sterilization.

Aside from the above variables, there are some more factors to be aware of when utilizing the UV unit. When changing the bulb, never look directly at the light when the unit is turned on. This may cause permanent damage to eye tissue. Also, always unplug the unit prior to cleanings and to water changes. The bulb will heat up if it is in operation in air instead of water. If the unit is submerged in water while it is still hot after or during operation in air, it may break and release electrodes in the water. This could be a highly shocking experience!

Overall, the UV sterilizer is helping me to maintain a healthy and happy environment for my marine inhabitants by killing most harmful microorganisms. The UV unit may be frustrating during maintenance, but then again so are fish deaths. Keep in mind the factors required for success, and make sure to use caution when handling the unit. Remember to consult your local pet stores when deciding on types of UV sterilizers. Marine fish keeping can be a rewarding experience when success is achieved, and the UV sterilizer can help the true marine aquarist reach a consistent level of success.

References:

Moe Jr., Martin A. The Marine Aquarian Reference: Systems and Invertebrates (Plantation, Florida: Green Turtle Publications, 1989).

Stratton, Richard F. The Marine Aquarium Yearbook ( Neptune, New Jersey: Yearbooks, Inc., 1996).

http://www.netpet.org/fish/healthspa/uvsteril.html

 

[Anonymous]

This one is from someone selling UV's - not the best source, but the information shown is still valid. (Of course someone here will knock it - but whatever...)

http://www.emperoraquatics.com/whatisuv ... zation.php

 

[Anonymous]

Finally, if it wasn't UV that protected my fish - which were covered in crypto - what was it that did in the quadradic breeding in a closed system? If you're going to disagree that my UV didn't kill the cycle - you need to tell me what did.

 

[Anonymous]

Clearly I'm not the only one who believes this.

Treatment Option 9: U.V. Sterilization

Ultraviolet sterilizers work by damaging most anything in the water column that passes through them. Their effectiveness is dependent on the wattage of the unit, the flow rate through the unit, the age of the lamp, the volume of the water being treated, the cleanliness of the sleeve, the clarity of the water, and the decorations (potential hiding spots for tomonts) in the aquarium (Moe, 1989). Colorni & Burgess (1997) discuss the use of UV. They extrapolate from a previous study done on freshwater Ich, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, and UV (If you are so interested, the original article is Gratzek, Gilbert, Lohr, Shotts, and Brown's 1983 piece "Ultraviolet light control of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis in a closed fish culture recirculation system." It can be found in the Journal of Fish Diseases volume 6 pages 145-153). In the study, they showed UV could prevent the spread of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis when used on a central system, but could not affect a cure within an individual aquarium. Colorni and Burgess believe the same would hold true with Cryptocaryon irritans. I would concur with them as my own personal/professional experience has demonstrated the same. I have found UV's to be very effective in bare bottom tanks, primarily in retail and wholesale operations. In display aquaria, the volume of the tank, the substrate and rockwork, the flow rate of the UV, and the wattage all work against its effectiveness. In commercial operations, many times, employees wipe down bare bottom tanks daily to maintain a clean appearance for customers. This has the added benefit of knocking loose the cyst stage of the parasite. The bare bottom, minimal decoration, high flow rates, and massive UV units on these systems ensure that most all the cysts and theronts pass through the sterilizer and are neutralized.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/s ... /index.php

I see your reading comprehension STILL hasnt improved - from the article you posted:

In the study, they showed UV could prevent the spread of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis when used on a central system, but could not affect a cure within an individual aquarium.

in other words, a UV can and will act as a preventative, BUT DOES NOT PROVIDE A CURE.