Can we clear up some QT confusion

[JLAudio]

I currently have a 10 gallon qt set up with 2 fish in it. with a hang on filter w/ a carbon less filter pad from my sump. I also have a air pump and a heater.

There is one contradiction that I hear that is confusing me:

A) That "you have to use established water and established filter pad for biological filtration to avoid a ammonia spike"

VS.​

B)"You should use fresh saltwater that is changed frequently and any biological filtation will be killed if your using copper in your QT"​

If it is true that the copper kills the bacteria that why do we attempt to use sponge filters and other established medias?​

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm
This article sides w/ the established water theory​

On the other hand I have hear a few experienced members on this site say the water should be freshly made and not from the main tank​

Im confused​

 

[marrone]

It's very simple to set up a QT tank. If you have good water quality in your main tank you can use some of that water and the rest freshly made water or all freshly made water. For small QT tanks I general use water from my reef tank as the quality is very good. For large fish, where I will probably need to setup a big tank or holding container, I generally make new water.

You then need to place a heater and something to move the water around. Pieces of PVC or rock, which will be used for cover, is also needed. You don't need to setup any type of biology filtration as the fish should be fine for the short time they'll be in the tank, also water changes will keep the levels in check. You want to make sure you don't over feed as this will lead to an increase in ammonia in the tank. The fish will be fine without eating every day. For larger fish, that require larger meals, you may want to do a water change right after you feed them.

When I go to do a water change in my QT I do very large changes, sometimes up to 90% of the water. I also usually clean out the tank and pumps or filters too. Before you do such a large water change you should drip the fish to the new water, this will reduce some stress.


Copper will kills some of the bacteria, and you may see a spike from the die off as the biology filtration will not being able to handle the load. In time it will catch up and you'll be alright. The thing is before you start to treat with copper you should do a good size water change and then start to treat.

 

[JLAudio]

Thanks marrone, everyone states it as being so simple, but even with minimal feeding my nitrite begins going up after only a day and even with water changes I can seem to keep the levels down to zero where they should be

 

[marrone]

Once you put in a fish or even food your levels are going to go up. The things is the fish will be fine as long as you don't over feed or have to many fish in the tank. When I'm QT a fish I don't even test the water, I know that I'm going to see ammonia and nitrites levels going up but the fish should be able to handle it for the short time they'll be in the tank, plus I also do water changes to bring the levels down.

Don't get caught up in testing the water, more important look at the fish and see how they're doing. If you can supply a filter with a little bacteria filtration that great but you;ll probably still see your levels go up.

 

[JLAudio]

Marrone that last piece of advice helps me more than a million internet articles, thanks!

As for feeding and water changes, what is your frequency w/ them?

 

[georgelc86]

If your lucky you may not have to treat with copper and worry about killing your nutrifying bacteria if your QTed fish exhibits no signs of illness. That's always a plus.

But to be honest, I know QTing has come along way since 96'. Is it customary now to immediatly treat a QTed fish with copper day one.

 

[marrone]

It really matter the fish that you're QT. If I'm QT a large fish, like an eel, grouper or trigger I may only feed them once a week, and then I'll do a water change soon after.

If it's a small fish I may feed every couple of days and then I would only feed something that isn't going to causes any problems with the water, like flake food or brime shrimp. I would then do water change after the first week or if the fish is stressed out from the water conditions. It's very important to look at the fish and the water and then do you changes based on that. After the second week I may change almost all the water and clean everything out, tank, pumps and filters, this way everything is fresh.

 

[marrone]

If your lucky you may not have to treat with copper and worry about killing your nutrifying bacteria if your QTed fish exhibits no signs of illness. That's always a plus.

But to be honest, I know QTing has come along way since 96'. Is it customary now to immediatly treat a QTed fish with copper day one.

Actually a QT is just for observations and no medication or copper should be used. If a fish starts to show signs of disease then you should start to treat it at which point the tank will turn into a hospital tank.

Once you see a fish has a disease you can determine the best course of treatment and medication to use to cure it. You shouldn't treat a fish with something unless you know what the fish has and then treat with the correct medication. Also you shouldn't start treating a health fish with copper or even place copper in a QT to start with.

 

[JLAudio]

I am going to follow all of this advice. I was feeding everyday and too worried about building up my bio filtration and test kits. Because I am currently healing up two fish with ich I really want them to eat a little to recoup their health

 

[JLAudio]

Once you see a fish has a disease you can determine the best course of treatment and medication to use to cure it. You shouldn't treat a fish with something unless you know what the fish has and then treat with the correct medication. Also you shouldn't start treating a health fish with copper or even place copper in a QT to start with.[/quote]

Great point, its just I am not introducing new fish but rather trying to heal fish that have 100% positve ich

 

[marrone]

When you're treating fish for ich something that I found very helpful is to keep a light on near the tank. It doesn't have to be over the tank but just near it. This will keep the fish from settling down to sleep at night. When they're swimming around and activity they're much stronger and seem to be able to fight the ich off better. A lot of times when the settled down to sleep the ich really has a big effect on their health, as their bodies slow down.

 

[georgelc86]

Actually a QT is just for observations and no medication or copper should be used. If a fish starts to show signs of disease then you should start to treat it at which point the tank will turn into a hospital tank.

Once you see a fish has a disease you can determine the best course of treatment and medication to use to cure it. You shouldn't treat a fish with something unless you know what the fish has and then treat with the correct medication. Also you shouldn't start treating a health fish with copper or even place copper in a QT to start with.

Thats what I thought. I tell you, the first time I started with saltwater was back in 96'. Left it after a few months and got back into it this year. Our hobby has really progressed since my first time.

 

[marrone]

Thats what I thought. I tell you, the first time I started with saltwater was back in 96'. Left it after a few months and got back into it this year. Our hobby has really progressed since my first time.

Yes it has, especially involving reef tanks and equipment. With all the info on the net the learning curve on reef tanks is very short now, you see a lot of great results from people with very little experience and spectacular results from people with as little as a couple of years of experience. It can still be tough and frustrating though.

 

[JLAudio]

Thats what I thought. I tell you, the first time I started with saltwater was back in 96'. Left it after a few months and got back into it this year. Our hobby has really progressed since my first time.

Welcome back to saltwater than, and thanks for all the help. I left my reef tank for a FOWLR thinking it would be easier in case of a disease outbreak and that I wouldnt need a QT. How much I regret making an assumption and now have to clean up this disaster.

 

[georgelc86]

Yes it has, especially involving reef tanks and equipment. With all the info on the net the learning curve on reef tanks is very short now, you see a lot of great results from people with very little experience and spectacular results from people with as little as a couple of years of experience. It can still be tough and frustrating though.

I remember when I started the Danner Supreme Skilter was the bomb H.O.T. filter because it had a built in skimmer. I personally love the hobby because I always want to be a vet or a marine biologist. Anyway I think we are getting off topic here.

 

[Bikinisalt]

I know it sucks because I use to never have a QT. Now I keep a 55G running with a wet/dry and skimmer with a trigger in it just to keep it going and when I get a new fish, trigger comes out goes into a display while the new fish is in Qt and when all is fine and the new fish is ready to go into the display, I put it in and take out the trigger. My luck is that the trigger when I put the net in the tank, he just goes in it and makes it easy...

 

[georgelc86]

I know it sucks because I use to never have a QT. Now I keep a 55G running with a wet/dry and skimmer with a trigger in it just to keep it going and when I get a new fish, trigger comes out goes into a display while the new fish is in Qt and when all is fine and the new fish is ready to go into the display, I put it in and take out the trigger. My luck is that the trigger when I put the net in the tank, he just goes in it and makes it easy...

Sounds like that trigger knows the routine already. Its kinda like a dog that knows your car parked on the street and it wants to go for a ride.

 

[Bikinisalt]

Sounds like that trigger knows the routine already. Its kinda like a dog that knows your car parked on the street and it wants to go for a ride.

Yeah your problably right, he is like a puppy. I've had this trigger for the longest. I keep no tops on my tanks and I had to take him out because he spits water out at you when you approach the tank and it would get onto the living room floor and my wife would get mad because he have hard wood floors. Now he is in my basement in the 55G...

 

[KathyC]

When you're treating fish for ich something that I found very helpful is to keep a light on near the tank. It doesn't have to be over the tank but just near it. This will keep the fish from settling down to sleep at night. When they're swimming around and activity they're much stronger and seem to be able to fight the ich off better. A lot of times when the settled down to sleep the ich really has a big effect on their health, as their bodies slow down.

I agree with Marrone on everything that he's suggested on this thread but agree to disagree with him on this point for 2 reasons.
The first point being totally not scientific. Supposedly ich needs to locate the host fish so that it can attach to it. Many eons ago (this is in regard to FW, while different than Marine ich, they are rather similar in some aspects) ich was treated by higher temperatures (to shorten it's life cycle) and turning the lights off in the tanks and wrapping the tank so that it was totally dark inside. The point was if the ich couldn't 'find' the fish, it couldn't attach itself and continue the cycle (ich will die if it doesn't have a host fish).
I tend to believe it is not the worst idea to turn the lights off at night and that this method still has merit.

The second point being that fish do 'sleep' and they do so better in the dark. A fish that is sick or stressed needs rest.

Additional info...
If you are treating a fish in a QT with medication you need to add additional AIR to the tank. Most especially if you are using copper.
Ich is a disease that kills fish by affecting it's gills..please add the air...

To keep a fish in QT less stressed, cover the back & sides of the tank. It gives fish a sense of security as they do not have to watch for predators from every angle. Decorative aquarium backing is made for more than just aesthetics.

Unless the water in your DT is perfect, please use freshly made SW for your water changes in your QT. I don't feel a need to explain why.

If you are a normal person and tend to overfeed and are NOT going to to the suggested water change every day..use Amquel Plus or Ammo-Lock in the QT as it will neutralize the ammonia in the QT and keep it from further damaging the gills. Do keep in mind that if you do test for Ammonia - you will get a reading of zero due to the differences in reagents required to test for ammonia while using these products. Special testing kits are available but unnecessary imo. Water changes still need to be done.

If you are going to treat with copper - you need a test kit for it to be sure you are providing the correct dosage to kill the ich. More damage will be done if you are not using the right dosage. Please follow the directions on the packaging to be sure.

 

[basiab]

I doubt that ick have eyes. I am sure they have ways to find their host.

I don't know who is right but it does make sense to keep fish off the bottom. But will lights on all the time stress them.