Need SPS Exp Opinions Please

[d5332]

This is the tank that I would like branching sps in but all die.

Tank has 8 anemones
Lps
Softies
Palys
Zoas
Sps but caps and encrusting

All this stuff is alive without changing water other than when Sandy occurred and for the past two weeks.

Yes, glass is dirty, currently taking a break from the work I am doing on the house, dirty glass does not mean tank if foul, parameters still fine.

Still dosing vodka and using gfo, only change is changing water weekly for idk a month or two and will buy another piece of branching sps.

As I have stated, if its not for me, its not for me but for those folks that have been apprehensive about dosing vodka, don't be, it helps a ton.

 

[Silkyslim]

Could be wrong but from your pic looks like cyano on your sb on the right side. Your phosphates might be higher than you think. Might be the source of some of your problems.

 

[d5332]

yeah, the gfo reactor flow slowed down significantly, just changed it...

But...

I do get some red cyano even with very low phosphates that to be honest I chalked it up to carbon dosing which imo its a small price to pay to have to syphon it out, given the benefits of vodka dosing.

but u may be right, maybe this tank is just not meant for branching sps corals.

I shall keep trying for a few months.

Could be wrong but from your pic looks like cyano on your sb on the right side. Your phosphates might be higher than you think. Might be the source of some of your problems.

 

[d5332]

purchased a sps coral today from Petraio and he defies most of the things sps keepers say must be done.

His tank was really nice, 99.99% sps corals, hugeeeeeeeeee true colonies.

No vortech's
no fancy controller
no dosers
no calcium reactor
no fancy timers
no huge skimmer, just proper size


Basic equipment with some huge, I mean huge true colonies, stated all he does is water changes every two weeks.

Did I mention he has a bunch of fish including large angels.

no algae problems, no asterina or other pests in sight.

 

[duke62]

So what is he doing that DEFIES what sps keepers say cant be done? I dont know anyone who says you NEED any of that it just makes things easier. Sounds to me like your still searching for the magic pill which you will not find. Oh and i see he does water changes which is what we all stated you need to do in the first place which you said you will not be a slave to.

 

[d5332]

Everything I have in my tank is alive with what I am doing.

Parameters are where they need to be.

Maybe its water changes but it can also be my lighting or the way I acclimate sps corals, which I dont, I was placing on a frag rack to close to the lights.

I am not done with my research or search for a magic pill.

If I can keep linkia starfish, snails, fish, monti caps, monti encrusting and a bunch of lps stuff without changing water I am happy with that.

I guess I will see, if this new piece of sps coral survives with a couple of changes that I've made.

Plenty of people keeping sps corals that do not do scheduled water changes, they supplement and perform wc every so often.

My reluctance against some opinions is due to the fact that they are given with eyes wide shut, some dive so deep into fish tank keeping that they preach, I hate preaching, its narrow minded and the preacher is always right.

There is more than one way to do things, including this.

So what is he doing that DEFIES what sps keepers say cant be done? I dont know anyone who says you NEED any of that it just makes things easier. Sounds to me like your still searching for the magic pill which you will not find. Oh and i see he does water changes which is what we all stated you need to do in the first place which you said you will not be a slave to.

 

[Geraud]

If you think water changes are enslaving... what about feeding the fish every day, cleaning the neck of your skimmer, changing filter socks, cleaning the algae off the glass panes?

Regarding acclimation, you clearly do not want to put SPS's right under the lights. Start low and get them up slowly till you like the place where they should be.

ps: what you have described is just someone following the basic rules of reefkeeping: light, flow, skimming, water changes.

 

[d5332]

you and I few others may be right, u can keep them alive, so far I cant.

I am open to water changes once I eliminate these other possible causes, which is another discussion, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, etc...

Petraio is not doing the basic of what sps keepers say needs to be done. he has no fuge, no pods, no huge skimmer and no dosing or calcium reactor and with the amount of sps he has some would say a reactor is a must.

Trust me, I am listening, just dont like preachers, too many ways to do this to simply say it has to be done one single way. If water changes every two, three maybe four weeks is my solution maybe I will embrace it.

feeding takes me 20 seconds
Cleaning skimmers probably a minute
Glass scraping takes me too long hence it only happens once per month.

Water changes, ughhh, everything is stored in the basement and needs to be brought up stairs and then back down, way different than feeding or skimmer cleaning.

If you think water changes are enslaving... what about feeding the fish every day, cleaning the neck of your skimmer, changing filter socks, cleaning the algae off the glass panes?

Regarding acclimation, you clearly do not want to put SPS's right under the lights. Start low and get them up slowly till you like the place where they should be.

ps: what you have described is just someone following the basic rules of reefkeeping: light, flow, skimming, water changes.

 

[NL146]

...just dont like preachers...

Well quit preaching then lol!

 

[d5332]

Me preaching, jajajaaa

Family thinks I am an athiest, last thing I do is preach, god I hate sermons

Well quit preaching then lol!

 

[Geraud]

Here is something interesting: the history of our hobby, by Roger from Tunze USA.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rv/feature/

As you can see it all started in the 80s (keeping SPS corals alive that is) when people started using a combination of live rock, skimming, good water movement, powerful lighting.

Dosing etc are things that make corals grow faster, potentially give them better colors, etc, but you do not need them to get SPS going. Same as everything else you mentioned in the matter of modern reefkeeping (aka refugium, controllers, etc).

 

[d5332]

Good stuff, appreciate the link.

I use that site often but its like an encyclopedia, it has information that I did not think it had.

Here is something interesting: the history of our hobby, by Roger from Tunze USA.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rv/feature/

As you can see it all started in the 80s (keeping SPS corals alive that is) when people started using a combination of live rock, skimming, good water movement, powerful lighting.

Dosing etc are things that make corals grow faster, potentially give them better colors, etc, but you do not need them to get SPS going. Same as everything else you mentioned in the matter of modern reefkeeping (aka refugium, controllers, etc).

 

[ecvernon]

The methods are different because everyone has different goals. My goals when I started this hobby vs today are way different. I started out wanting pulsing Xenia and blue mushrooms. And I was extremely happy with it. Then I wanted to keep sps alive and lps. Then i wanted them to grow. Then now I am trying to get maximum color out of them.
When some one asks me for information I usually tell them my current methods although there are many others depending on the persons goal for their tank

 

[ecvernon]

also in my personal experience I could not keep acropora as healthy as i can now. I had a tank full of RBTA's and was on top of my water quality. The sps coral growth was so-so. When I removed all anemones to a dedicated tank thats when my time with sps got better. I dont have any science to back up my claim but having as much anemones in my 65 gallon as I did, made it a little harder for my sps to thrive.

My tank is still a mixed reef but sps dominate. since i made my transition it has been for the positive

 

[d5332]

Oh boy....

I am doing 10% water changes each week while still dosing vodka and using gfo.

Placed 4 different sps pieces on the sand, if that does not do it then i may call it quits.

I can get rid off maybe 3 rbta's but not all of them, the clown fish like to move from one to the other and its too entertaining to give up nems all together, why do I feel like saying "why can't they all just get along".

Thanks for the tip on the nems, not planning to go nuts over figuring it out. As I have stated and shown pictures of, with zero water changes I can keep many things alive so if sps is going to take to much research or if will need to start giving up one thing over the other,,,,,,,idk let me sleep on it.

also in my personal experience I could not keep acropora as healthy as i can now. I had a tank full of RBTA's and was on top of my water quality. The sps coral growth was so-so. When I removed all anemones to a dedicated tank thats when my time with sps got better. I dont have any science to back up my claim but having as much anemones in my 65 gallon as I did, made it a little harder for my sps to thrive.

My tank is still a mixed reef but sps dominate. since i made my transition it has been for the positive

 

[ReefNut]

If WCs are such a hassle and you hate doing it,why not automate it?
Its pretty easy to do.
My tank get a small wc everyday whether I'm there or not.

 

[d5332]

If its not too hard maybe something I should consider.

I assume you have a thread on here, yes?

If WCs are such a hassle and you hate doing it,why not automate it?
Its pretty easy to do.
My tank get a small wc everyday whether I'm there or not.

 

[homegrowncichlid]

I'm late on the conversation, it was so animated and full of drama, I just had to leave my 2 bits.

1. Agree on biological warfare affecting SPS. Very possible, since your tank seems very well established. (your photo was worth a thousand words) Could be the anemones, softie or other LPS, spewing their stinging cells (or other chemicals) into the water. If this is so, then SPS will never go in under these specific conditions. No point in trying over and over again.

2. I have tried vodka dosing (with a 6" deep sand bed) and was unsuccessful. My nutrients levels were high, and I tried for months to get it down. The only thing that happened was the tissue of my SPS started to peel off the bone. I'd drop my vodka down to half, and the SPS would stabilize. Then I'd try to raise it again slowly and the tissue would start to detach again. A very direct and possitive correlation, which I contributed to chronic high phospate levels. (Ultimately, its now known that deep sand beds and vodka dosing doesn't work.) Unlike you, I also lost half my LPS, (I had hammer and frogspawn polyps pop out) In the end, I lost almost all my SPS except for tiny bits and pieces randomly scattered around the tank.

SO, my solution to the water changing problem, (I also deem water changes to be a chore and a massive use of space my studio can't afford) was to get a denitrifier (more focused use of vodka) and to use GFO.
I decided not to experiment with vodka anymore and use products that other inventors made, using their technical expertise and ingenuity. They have done the research and already solved the problem all of us lazy persons are experiencing, in regards to maintaining water quality and exporting nutrients.

So, without too much details, I currently have a successful mixed reef (SPS/LPS/zooanthid/ricordia) 65gal mixed reef with 38gal sump (6" deep sand bed in sump), filled with caleurpa with stardard lighting and skimming. I use a medium sized aquaripure denitrifier (which eats 6 mL of vodka a week) and about 12 tablespoons of GFO every 6 months. I haven't done a water change with this configuration (2 years now).

NOTE Interesting enough, I've been trying to reintroduce xenia into my tank, (which I had before my wipeout) but for some strange reason, they just shrink up and die off. Done this twice already. They keep pulsing, and shrinking, pulsing and shrinking, till one day, poof, they drift off. I don't know who's attacking it, directly or indirectly, I suspect biological warfare, but I was wise enough not to try again.

 

[d5332]

I actually have not done major changes to the tank other than throttled down the vodka dosage to the point I do have nitrates but the nitrates reading remains stable.

The macros in the sump did grow exponentially since I throttled down the vodka.

I put 8ml of reef complete every week and monitor Alk drop a teaspoon or two when it goes below 8.

I am not changing water much, 20 gallons every two or 3 weeks.

The owner of Sea Level Aquarium told me the water was too clean or rather stripped of everything so I took the good stuff posted on this thread, mixed it with the advice from sea level and it's working, The monti's are all showing growth and the SPS branching corals are all still very much alive, frags for now but alive and colorful.

My goal is to using dosing pumps and gradually begin using common additives such as two part or whatever else convinces me that is easy to use.

In regards to a Nitrate Filter, I have one, AquaMedic Nitrate Remover, decided not to use it, after truly reading about this filter I decided not to use it because of the potential sulfur build up and killing everything in the tank, I am not the type of person to check the tank morning and night.

My next steps are to automate dosing with dosing pumps.
Learn about growth rates to determine if corals are growing as should or if my parameters are inhibiting growth.
Find better lighting for the tank.

Any draw backs to using that Aquaripure?

 

[homegrowncichlid]

theoretically, there shouldn't be any draw backs with a denitirfier, I like it because I can use vodka or viniger, and don't have to buy the manufacturer's products. It only does one thing, reduce nitrates. Does nothing for phosphates. No sulfer. I think of it as the cluch bowler, rounding out my deep sand bed's function.