Andy's second tank build project.

[Anonymous]

As if one tank wasnt enough, I have decided to set up another one, smaller this time and species specific. I got nudged by a deltec skimmer being offered to me cheap, along with an old tank, sump and stand.

The tank is 4" by 2" by 2-and-a-bit ft.
The stand is old and rusted as the pics show. It has been sent off for sandblasting and cadnium coating, pics soon
I intend to have a cabinet made the same as my reef tank.

The primary reason for this new project is that I spearfish a lot and in the process catch heaps of our local rock lobster.(Panulirus homarus) (http://ip30.eti.uva.nl/bis/lobsters.php ... ten&id=154) I hate freezing them as they dont taste the same so this will be a holding tank of sorts. Also i love small lionfish, but cant keep them in my reef tank, they will also find a (more permanent) home here.
As it will effectively be FOWLR, I anticipate installing only T5 lighting. I will be running both tanks off the same aquatronica controller currently on my reef system.

As the pics show, I have put together a lot of the kit already, now waiting on the stand.....

 

[Anonymous]

more, sorry about the quality of the pics btw

 

[Anonymous]

and more...

 

[Anonymous]

Looking good so far...

 

[shavo]

hey, you are building a tank to keep heaps of lobster alive for consumption?

lawdog? aren't you in this game for the right reasons? are you raising your fish for the same thing?

I'm sorry but I can't agree on helping this one. sorry

we waste all of our time here trying to help people do it right to give these animals a nice home away from there home and you wanna comment about how good it is looking so far? Do you look at the lobster tank in the local supermarket? That is what he is doing. Anybody elsse here agree with me? Administrator? Is this what the purpose of this site is all about?

 

[Anonymous]

Shavo, for what its worth, I already have a large reef tank, and no, I dont eat the contents of that, nor- to the best of my knowledge-does anyone else in this hobby. (The link is in my sig line)

In passing, how many critters have you had die in your tank? Whilst I can accept that there are some hobbyists out there that are capable of coral propogation and captive breeding, the vast majority of hobbyists (including me) keep fish and corals for purely selfish reasons, they are beautiful and interesting. Keeping them in a 'home away from home' is hardly ideal and in a lot of cases could be compared to keeping animals in a Zoo. Just read through these boards and see the high rates of specimen mortality as a direct consequence of just capture and transit, let alone the heavy losses incurred by many hobbyists, especially in their early years in this hobby. Spare a thought for the tons of livestock destroyed in the name of the hobby every year before you climb on a soapbox and start taking a swing at me for keeping a species specific tank for my own consumption.

That said, most hobbyists, particularly here, are strong advocates for conservation and the ethical approach to the industry as a whole. I wholeheartedly support them and always have. I collect my lobster within the relevant conservation laws applicable here and I am hardly going to be ashamed about it. I'm certain you eat lobster, prawns and fish, or chicken, beef, lamb et al. Most of these (Except the fish) are captive raised or captive stored for consumption- often in horrific conditions (Look at battery chicken farming). Did that ever stop you enjoying a meal?
Unless you are a vegan, your indignation is rather unfounded and provocative.

Feel free to direct the moderators or any other participants to this link. If others feel substantively the same way as you, or if the Mods feel that the link is off-colour, I will have it removed immediately. My intention was to try and showcase an unusual species in captivity and document the process of establishing that captivity- for the interest of the broader community. Until it has been pointed out to me that this thread is likely to offend more than the most shrill, I will continue to do so. Just ignore it if it irks you.

 

[Anonymous]

hey, you are building a tank to keep heaps of lobster alive for consumption?

lawdog? aren't you in this game for the right reasons? are you raising your fish for the same thing?

What is the "right reason" for keeping fish in a tank Shavo? If you look at this from a purely moral position there is no "high ground right reason" here. If you are a true conservationist you would not have a tank at all. I'm not being nasty here, simply stating a fact. Every time someone in this hobby buys a fish or live rock or coral, unless it is 100% aquacultered is taking something from it's natural habitat.

You, and I and everyone else here takes critters from the sea, and places them in a confined space for our own amusement. For no other reason than our own pleasure. Talk about selfish! The sheer attrition of livestock, the number of them that die prior to hobbyist purchase is enormous. Read the Industry forum if you want to know how many fish die for every one that makes it to the LFS.

Therefore, to point a finger at Andy37's project as being "wrong" is IMO hypocritical. In fact, his stated purpose is, again IMO, a much better reason to keep critters than the average "I bought this Nemo and Dorrie because I saw the movie and so what if they don't belong in a 10 gallon tank? So what if they die I'll just buy more! After all they are just fish." How many times have I or others on this board positively cringed as we tried to give advice to someone keeping 4 tangs, 2 clowns, 2 damsels and an anemone in a teacup and wonders why they die!!!

Now all that having been said I do believe the true future of this hobby is going to be in aquacultured livestock. Until the point where we as hobbyists can make a tank up of 100% captive bred stock, we can't point accusing fingers at others!

 

[Anonymous]

I think, on the contrary, Andy's tank sounds to be an ethically sound way of doing things. Providing the lobsters with a clean, well cared for enviornment will make them less stressed and healthier when he eats them. If you're going to eat an animal, having it kept in a humane way before slaughter makes perfect sense.

To take the line that aquariums should never be used for food sounds odd to me. The logical extention of the argument seems to be a farmer shouldn't eat the animals he raises. :?

Look forward to seeing this thread progress.

 

[Anonymous]

I just hope that you humanly melt the butter for 'em too!

 

[mr_X]

umm..shavo is a vegan. 8)
i honestly don't care what you do..but watch your posts people. don't whine about a guy who keeps a tang in a nano if you are all for a "death row" for lobsters.
it's total crap.
btw...i sure wish i could pluck a lobster lunch from my local water hole! good for you!

 

[Anonymous]

What exactly are you saying MrX? Where do you fall on this supposed issue, or is it lonely up there on the fence ? :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

umm..shavo is a vegan. 8)
i honestly don't care what you do..but watch your posts people. don't whine about a guy who keeps a tang in a nano if you are all for a "death row" for lobsters.
it's total crap.
btw...i sure wish i could pluck a lobster lunch from my local water hole! good for you!

I'm not sure how keeping lobsters in suitable conditions is comparable to keeping a tang in completely unsuitable conditions.

The problem appears to be the end purpose, which Shavo appears to object to and, if he's a vegan, he has a good personal moral reason to do so. A personal moral reason that has little to do with fishkeeping and nothing to do with this board.

I'm assuming the lobsters themselves are not spear caught/injured in the process.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem appears to be the end purpose, which Shavo appears to object to and, if he's a vegan, he has a good personal moral reason to do so. A personal moral reason that has little to do with fishkeeping and nothing to do with this board.

I'm assuming the lobsters themselves are not spear caught/injured in the process.

No, that would be illegal.

I'm happy to have this debate, but it seems to be in the wrong forum. If anyone out there feels that this off-topic topic deserves some more air, lets get it moved to the GRF (?)

 

[mr_X]

What exactly are you saying MrX? Where do you fall on this supposed issue, or is it lonely up there on the fence ? :wink:

i am not opposed to having food in holding tanks in your home. i am actually opposed to eating nothing but veggies. i love cows and deer and chickens and turkeys on my plate at dinner time.
i just think i'd rather be a claustrophobic tang than a boiling lobster! that's all.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm happy to have this debate, but it seems to be in the wrong forum. If anyone out there feels that this off-topic topic deserves some more air, lets get it moved to the GRF (?)

Nah, I just want to see your tank get set up. :wink:

 

[shavo]

Hey all, I didn't mean to offend any of you. look I got home that night from a Christmas Party and read the post after a few beers and got upset about it. For what it's worth I am sorry Andy, I don't want to take away from your tank building thread. I apologize! I am a vegan and try to do what is morally right? Sometimes I buy fish from the LFS that looks sick, anybody ever do that? I don't think that is a selfish thing to do now is it lawdog IMO/IME. I try to keep my tank and natural a setting as a fish can get and I think most of the time i can purchase a sick fish and bring him back to life. I read the part about eating lobsters that he catches and thought to myself.........self, what am I doing in here and why are we all on this forum to help people if they are just taking things out of the ocean and giving them a nice 5 minute life before it gets boiled alive. you can all have your opinions but to me it sounds shitty and it puts a blemish on this otherwise prolife forum IMO

time to go to reef monkey IME

 

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I buy fish from the LFS that looks sick, anybody ever do that? I don't think that is a selfish thing to do now is it lawdog IMO/IME.

Selfish? No. Have far reaching consequences you have not thought of? Yes. Sigh...I hate to keep bursting your bubbles Shavo but when you "rescue" a sick fish from the LFS all you do in effect is encourage the LFS to buy another fish, which promotes that cycle I mentioned above of many fish that die before one reaches the LFS. But you don't want to hear that I am sure, you feel you are doing the animals a service.

You are arguing from the welfare of the animal standpoint, which is commendable. But your arguments are pure sophistry, and it surprises me that you can't see that. What you are in effect saying is that it is okay for you to have someone else catch, then ship, then sell to you critters that would otherwise be in their natural environment for your own pleasure (your reef tank), but that it's not okay for Andy37 to catch and eat them which he does for the same reasons. I'm sure you are also speaking from a vegan perspective, but that has nothing to do with moral relativism which is what you are in effect practicing here with your distinctions.

Since I have over many years past kept fish and other critters, even though I take the best possible care of them and promote others to do the same, I never delude myself that this practice is beneficial to the fish. I keep them because I like them, and it pleases me to do so. Not that I don't practice sustainable practices when I can, but I don't kid myself and pat myself on the back when I frag a coral.

To my way of thinking, to point fingers at Andy37's living larder would be hypocritical.

 

[shavo]

hey lawdog, I understand what you are saying and I somewhat agree. I try to help animals, that's all. If it completes the cycle of the industry to buy fish at the LFS to help a fish out then I am guilty. I hate the LFS and every one of them in my area. I think this business is the biggest rip off going and the owners are in it to do one thing, make money and I try to stay out of them the best I can. I do need supplies from time to time then I walk down the isle and I feel bad that i can't house all of the animals. I would love to continue this conversation with you but we have to take it off this guys thread. I feel bad that this conversation is happening on his page to show his tank. PM me and we can talk or we can post a new topic and continue ok?
merry christmas everybody!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Shavo, no sweat! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as a vegan, you are more than entitled to your pov. Hope you had a good Christmas!

Back on topic, the stand has come back from cadnium plating and some cutting and welding, and sandblasting. I will post pics when I have some further progress as all my 'tanktime' is being taken up atm with a trainwreck in my reef system. I do intend to have the system in and filled and curing by the end of next week......cycle should be short as I have the starting LR and live sand in my reef system sump at the moment. I have already found the small lionfish for the system, when I'm ready its just a case of diving them out....

 

[hndakd]

looks good so far. at my job i maintain a smaller lobster tank.. for consumption of course what kind of lobsters are rock lobsters? i house hard shell straight from maine.

lookin foward to seein this progress