64g Tokyo tank

[Anonymous]

Really? Ah, that might be the problem then.

Like so many things in this hobby, it's not so much a problem as a question of different approaches. I wouldn't make any hard decisions until you see what's on the new rock in any case.

 

[Anonymous]

Leave the lights on Tom

 

[Anonymous]

Darn, looks like I'm late to the party. Looking very good, Tom. I'll be back with some questions once I've read the whole thread. For now I've just skipped forward from page one to say Nice light! I have the same one and love it.

Great looking tank, too. Looking forward to reading the details tomorrow.

 

[Anonymous]

Like so many things in this hobby, it's not so much a problem as a question of different approaches. I wouldn't make any hard decisions until you see what's on the new rock in any case.

Leave the lights on Tom

Thanks both. I'll give it a bit longer with the lights coming on for the full cycle. I'm actually starting to see interesting looking macros appearing as well as the normal new tank algae and, as I wouldn't having some macro in the tank long-term, I might stick with this approach a bit longer.

Darn, looks like I'm late to the party. Looking very good, Tom. I'll be back with some questions once I've read the whole thread. For now I've just skipped forward from page one to say Nice light! I have the same one and love it.

Great looking tank, too. Looking forward to reading the details tomorrow.

You're very welcome Craig! Your tank was a big inspiration to me (no exaggeration), including in terms of quality kit like lighting, so I'm very happy to see you here. Mine won't look nearly as good I'm sure, but welcome for the ride!

 

[Anonymous]

Excitement of the evening. Pods on the glass. 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Well, the new rock arrived this morning. Wrapped in bubble wrap, with tags certifying them to be aquacultured in Okinawa (don't know this is a legal requirement or more seen to be a sign of quality). Each rock, in addition to being wrapped in bubble wrap was in its own individual bag, filled with water, triple-bagged. They were then put in a polystyrene box, packed with newspaper and drinks bottles filled with water (one way of regulating the temperature I guess). Very fresh smelling and immediate signs of life as I transferred the rock to the tank. I saw a small green brittle star (not a serpent star), an Asterina sp. and a couple of shrimp looking plankton (though I'm now slightly worried they were lobster fry 8O ).

The size was slightly disappointing, not to be honest because it was smaller than advertised, but probably because my mental eye was out when I tried to imagine how they would look in the tank when I bought both pieces. Still, they are covered in plenty of purple coralline and I've since seen a brittle star leg poking out from one, which is reassuring, and a surprising and very welcome hitchhiker. Does everyone agree (allowing for blurry, crappy shot), that this looks like a tunicate?

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010575.jpg[/rimg]

Some other shots now the rock is in the tank. I'm not ecstatic about the aquascaping, but given my limited capacity (in terms of both aesthetics and patience for fiddling around), it's OK I think. I'd like to get some more height on the left side at some point, so that one island is higher than the other, but that might have to wait for another piece to be ordered, as I don't think the pieces I currently have I want to put up there.

The new pieces are the pieces on top of each pile.

Whole thing:

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010579.jpg[/rimg]

Left side:

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010576.jpg[/rimg]

Right side:

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010578.jpg[/rimg]

Full tank shot from a bit further away:

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010580.jpg[/rimg]

 

[Anonymous]

By the way, I'd like to apologise for my lack of photo-taking ability. This is partly down to genuine absence of skill and partly down to the camera I have right now. It's an Olympus SP-350, i.e. a compact with a few manual functions. I specifically bought it because it had a macro function that seemed pretty decent. Well, that function works if you're taking a shot of something you can get very close to, but not if you're trying to take a macro of something a bit further inside the tank.

I've now started thinking I need a decent digital SLR with a macro lens, but having taken a look at what they go for, I think this will be a pipe dream unless I can work out what was a decent DSLR/macro lens 3-4 years ago and go out and buy one second hand.

 

[Anonymous]

Two further tidbits of info.

If you want to see larger versions of my crappy shots, you can just click on the picture and it will take you to a higher res version (the wonders of photobucket and the rimg tag).

Part of what I wanted with the rocks on the left is to have a mini cliff/overhang for a small group of Trimma caudomaculatum, given that that's the way they roll (shot below not mine).

 

[Anonymous]

First, the rock itself looks really nice, exactly as advertised. I'm frankly envious on that score.

As to the aquascape I like it a lot.The only piece of it I'm not thrilled with is the cliff overhang, but you've explained why you have it so I won't suggest you change that. Is it possible to keep it in the same place, still providing the overhang, if you were to rotate it on it's side so the humps on top project sidewise rather than up? Doing that would lower the overall height of that island a bit, making it visibly lower than the top of the right island, giving you a consistent visual slope angle from the right to the left. Then I'd put low-growing corals on the top of the right island and high-growing corals on the top of the left. But that's just me and my aesthetic, don't let it interfere if you have something else in mind. I -do- like what you already have; it's nice use of the golden ratio, negative space, and you have the outcrops from both islands projecting in the same angles giving a nice sense of flow to the formations.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't apologize for your photos, they're plenty fine. I'll make a couple of suggestions that are easy to do that might make you happier with how they come out, though...
1. If you're not already, use a tripod to steady the camera. Small ones are really cheap.
2. Macro mode is really only best if you're right up on the glass and can optically, not digitally, zoom the camera in to a couple inches from what you want to focus on. I've seen cameras say their macro mode is good at over a foot distance, but personally I've never had great results unless I could zoom in under 6 inches.
3. Buy a magnifying glass bigger than the diameter of the lens of your camera, and use it between the camera and the tank. You'd be amazed on what this can accomplish on a camera who's macro mode isn't super hot.
4. If you want real help with getting high quality pictures, spend time at http://www.aquatic-photography.com/ and the forum there. Very helpful people and advice.

How easy are Trimma caudomaculatum to get for you? Over on this side of the planet they're nearly impossible.

Edit: Oh, and yes, that's very likely either a tunicate or a scyphoid sponge (and I assume not the later, as I'm sure you'd recognize it in person).

Finally, what's your plan as far the corals you want? I don't recall you saying what sort of tank this is going to be. Mixed reef?

 

[Anonymous]

First, the rock itself looks really nice, exactly as advertised. I'm frankly envious on that score.

As to the aquascape I like it a lot.The only piece of it I'm not thrilled with is the cliff overhang, but you've explained why you have it so I won't suggest you change that. Is it possible to keep it in the same place, still providing the overhang, if you were to rotate it on it's side so the humps on top project sidewise rather than up? Doing that would lower the overall height of that island a bit, making it visibly lower than the top of the right island, giving you a consistent visual slope angle from the right to the left. Then I'd put low-growing corals on the top of the right island and high-growing corals on the top of the left. But that's just me and my aesthetic, don't let it interfere if you have something else in mind. I -do- like what you already have; it's nice use of the golden ratio, negative space, and you have the outcrops from both islands projecting in the same angles giving a nice sense of flow to the formations.

Thanks for the feedback CJ, I really appreciate it. I'd actually thought I wanted the higher island to be on the left hand side, as that's where the overflow/return is, so I'd like to conceal that if I can. I still might go for your idea of low-growing on that side though, with higher-growing coral on the right hand side.

I actually had a go at shuffling things around last night, with the following result. One rock moved onto the top of the left hand pile and a few rocks moved around at sand level. When I first put things together, I thought I liked the idea of one rock at the front on the left shielding an area behind it, but I then realised this might mean I didn't see a lot of things I wanted to, so I moved that rock as well. Anyway, grateful for your expert eye on this latest adjustment.

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010581.jpg[/rimg]

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, and you're right about the rock. I'm really pleased with it. Although one thing my tank seems to be lacking right now are the usual sand bed inhabitants that sometimes come in with rock (particularly bristleworms). I might have to invest in that plankton pack I was talking about on the last page.

The critter I posted the pic of is almost definitely not a syconoid sponge I don't think, as it doesn't have that typical fuzzy/cream-colored appearance. It's almost entirely transparent, with just a greyish looking slender spine running through it. I also saw it expell a grain of sand yesterday, by contracting and then blowing out the water, which I guess sponges won't do quite so obviously. The challenge now is to keep it alive if it is a tunicate. I saw another of possibly the same type of organism on the same rock, but in a slightly more difficult to see spot. I could have quite a crop! Though I don't know how fast they multiply, if at all.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't apologize for your photos, they're plenty fine. I'll make a couple of suggestions that are easy to do that might make you happier with how they come out, though...
1. If you're not already, use a tripod to steady the camera. Small ones are really cheap.
2. Macro mode is really only best if you're right up on the glass and can optically, not digitally, zoom the camera in to a couple inches from what you want to focus on. I've seen cameras say their macro mode is good at over a foot distance, but personally I've never had great results unless I could zoom in under 6 inches.
3. Buy a magnifying glass bigger than the diameter of the lens of your camera, and use it between the camera and the tank. You'd be amazed on what this can accomplish on a camera who's macro mode isn't super hot.
4. If you want real help with getting high quality pictures, spend time at http://www.aquatic-photography.com/ and the forum there. Very helpful people and advice.

Great tips CJ, that's really helpful. I will certainly look at getting a tripod very soon. Not sure where to find a magnifying glass, but I'll start looking. Will also head over and check out the forum - sounds like a very useful resource. Let's hope they have patience with someone operating at a very basic level with a very basic camera!

How easy are Trimma caudomaculatum to get for you? Over on this side of the planet they're nearly impossible.

They're certainly not available in every LFS, but there are certain places that sell them. One place in Yokohama has them, but buying from there might depend on us buying a car (which we plan to, but haven't made much progress on). I can also order direct from the place I bought my rock from. They are found in Okinawan waters, so probably a lot easier to come by here than they would be in the US. Plus a lot shorter distance to travel, which probably makes a difference for mortality rates etc. I really love the look of them (though I've yet to see them in person) and their reputed swimming behavior (kind of hovering next to an overhang in the water column, belly towards the rock and head pointing towards the water surface, so kind of upside down).

Finally, what's your plan as far the corals you want? I don't recall you saying what sort of tank this is going to be. Mixed reef?

Mixed reef, but with a focus on zoas, rics, shrooms and LPS like chalice corals, acans and blasstos. I love the rich colors and various shapes, plus that sort of stocking goes with the approach I'm using (i.e. not the bare bottom approach that would be ideal for SPS). Once the tank is firmly established and stable, I might try putting a branching porites at the top of one of the piles, or a branching monitpora, but I've got no intention at the moment to try acros or stylophoras etc.

 

[Anonymous]

In case of interest, here's the website I bought my rock from. You can see the fish list on the left. Many of them are collected to order (with lots of warnings on each page that the time it takes will depend on weather/being able to find them etc).

http://www.umibose.com/onlineshop/index.php

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the feedback CJ, I really appreciate it. I'd actually thought I wanted the higher island to be on the left hand side, as that's where the overflow/return is, so I'd like to conceal that if I can. I still might go for your idea of low-growing on that side though, with higher-growing coral on the right hand side.

Low rock on the left, high growing on the left. High rock on the right, low growing on the right. That's my recommendation

I actually had a go at shuffling things around last night, with the following result. One rock moved onto the top of the left hand pile and a few rocks moved around at sand level. When I first put things together, I thought I liked the idea of one rock at the front on the left shielding an area behind it, but I then realised this might mean I didn't see a lot of things I wanted to, so I moved that rock as well. Anyway, grateful for your expert eye on this latest adjustment.

Still looks good, but I think I prefer your first instinct and how you had it yesterday. I'd use the hidden 'cove' to advantage.... lots of different ideas spring to mind. Anchorage for gorgonians, whose bottom few inches are generally the least interesting. Anemones... a pizza would go great there, although your other inhabitants probably wouldn't appreciate it. A couple of mini carpet anemones (s. tapetum I think?) could be amazing there as well. Very low flow LPS like a bubble coral or a fox coral. Just off the top of my head

Although one thing my tank seems to be lacking right now are the usual sand bed inhabitants that sometimes come in with rock (particularly bristleworms). I might have to invest in that plankton pack I was talking about on the last page.

Don't give up hope... I just found my first bristleworm tonight, over a month after adding the rock.

The critter I posted the pic of is almost definitely not a syconoid sponge I don't think, as it doesn't have that typical fuzzy/cream-colored appearance. It's almost entirely transparent, with just a greyish looking slender spine running through it. I also saw it expell a grain of sand yesterday, by contracting and then blowing out the water, which I guess sponges won't do quite so obviously. The challenge now is to keep it alive if it is a tunicate. I saw another of possibly the same type of organism on the same rock, but in a slightly more difficult to see spot. I could have quite a crop! Though I don't know how fast they multiply, if at all.

Depends both on species and conditions. I've heard of the rare occasion where they've multiplied like mad in someone's tank, but that's very much the exception. I've never personally had one in any of my tanks, so there's little practical advice I can offer on it's care.

Mixed reef, but with a focus on zoas, rics, shrooms and LPS like chalice corals, acans and blasstos. I love the rich colors and various shapes, plus that sort of stocking goes with the approach I'm using (i.e. not the bare bottom approach that would be ideal for SPS). Once the tank is firmly established and stable, I might try putting a branching porites at the top of one of the piles, or a branching monitpora, but I've got no intention at the moment to try acros or stylophoras etc.

Bare bottom for SPS is over-rated Especially if you limit them to only a certain area of the tank, then you only have to worry about flow strength and pattern in that specific area. I think your idea of just using one or two for accent/contrast sounds just right, though.

In case of interest, here's the website I bought my rock from. You can see the fish list on the left. Many of them are collected to order (with lots of warnings on each page that the time it takes will depend on weather/being able to find them etc).

Heh. Every fish species on the short list I have for possible inclusion in my tank (and which I'm jumping through hoops to find), they have. Although if the exchange rate is what I think it is, some of their offerings are very high priced compared to what I'd expect.

 

[Anonymous]

While you're still up CJ, what's your opinion on this hitch hiker? I can't make out whether it's a pink footed Nassarius (if there is such a thing) or an evil Murex snail (though the shell looks different and I can't remember Murex having a proboscis) or something completely different.

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010587.jpg[/rimg]

[rimg]http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab238/TheEscapedApe/Long%20awaited/P1010588.jpg[/rimg]

Will answer your post in a second - rushing to get this up before you go to bed!

 

[Anonymous]

The proboscis definitely makes me think nassarius, and the shell doesn't look like too much of a stretch for that.... but it's just a guess and it could just as easily be a miniature giant space hamster snail, or a socialist marxist communist snail.

I usually give most hitchhikers the benefit of the doubt when I can't identify them, but snails I don't. I'd banish him to the sump to be on the safe side.

 

[Anonymous]

Low rock on the left, high growing on the left. High rock on the right, low growing on the right. That's my recommendation

Hmm. I'm not sure why it is (probably not the need to hide the overflow/return in retrospect), but I much prefer low on right, high on left. Maybe it's more that I want a light, open area on one side and having the overflow/return sat on the left makes it harder to achieve there (particularly once it starts to get covered in corraline).

Still looks good, but I think I prefer your first instinct and how you had it yesterday. I'd use the hidden 'cove' to advantage.... lots of different ideas spring to mind. Anchorage for gorgonians, whose bottom few inches are generally the least interesting. Anemones... a pizza would go great there, although your other inhabitants probably wouldn't appreciate it. A couple of mini carpet anemones (s. tapetum I think?) could be amazing there as well. Very low flow LPS like a bubble coral or a fox coral. Just off the top of my head

Interesting ideas, but none of those (aside from s. tapetum, which I can't get here anyway!) are really things I'd like to have in the tank anyway. What I might do is put another rock back in the position the larger rock was in, to recreate the cove, but with a lower peninsular, so it's easier to see into. But I might have to think it over for a while. I'm not 100% happy with the larger rock sitting on top, that's for sure, as it's not rock solid. I don't want any falls!

Don't give up hope... I just found my first bristleworm tonight, over a month after adding the rock.

That's encouraging! I guess there might be some very small ones hidden away, particularly in the latest couple of rocks. I was concerned that as the rocks are matured in hanging cages (from what I can work out), they might not have any bristleworms make it to them while in the ocean. On the positive side, still no sign of crabs or mantis (the rocks might be too small for them to have settled in, but I think they were also checked for crabs/mantis before being sent, which probably helps, as does the hanging cage factor). Still it's early days...

Depends both on species and conditions. I've heard of the rare occasion where they've multiplied like mad in someone's tank, but that's very much the exception. I've never personally had one in any of my tanks, so there's little practical advice I can offer on it's care.

Thanks anyway. I won't be devastated if they don't take off, but it's certainly a cool critter to be able to observe, so I hope I can at least keep this one (or two) alive.

Heh. Every fish species on the short list I have for possible inclusion in my tank (and which I'm jumping through hoops to find), they have. Although if the exchange rate is what I think it is, some of their offerings are very high priced compared to what I'd expect.

Indeed, things are expensive here and I think this place is more expensive than most. On the other hand, you're getting stock direct from the people catching the fish off the reef, which is kind of attractive, partly as I think it is valuable income in the poorest prefectures in Japan, directly linked to keeping the reef as healthy as possible. The reefs off Ishigaki island are much healthier than the reefs off the main island in Okinawa (devastated by construction site run-off) and this might help create the constituency within Ishigaki to keep it that way. On the other hand, I will probably only buy from them if I can't find somewhere where I can see the fish in a tank before purchasing.

I'm seriously leaning towards an Okinawa biotope tank at the moment actually. I think it'd be kind of cool to have a tank with rock and fish all from Okinawa. Trouble is, it's not permitted to take any stony corals from the wild in Okinawa, so I wouldn't be able to buy LPS that way. So it might end up being a biotope only in terms of fish...

 

[Anonymous]

The proboscis definitely makes me think nassarius, and the shell doesn't look like too much of a stretch for that.... but it's just a guess and it could just as easily be a miniature giant space hamster snail, or a socialist marxist communist snail.

I usually give most hitchhikers the benefit of the doubt when I can't identify them, but snails I don't. I'd banish him to the sump to be on the safe side.

Good advice. I'll put it in the refugium in the sump (currently only has sand in it) until I can get a positive I.D. I'm starting to think Anachis sp. (Dove snail) based on a limited amount of internet research, but I'll wait until I have a positive I.D. before returning it to the display tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm. I'm not sure why it is (probably not the need to hide the overflow/return in retrospect), but I much prefer low on right, high on left. Maybe it's more that I want a light, open area on one side and having the overflow/return sat on the left makes it harder to achieve there (particularly once it starts to get covered in corraline).

The way I was picturing it was with corals on the left that would be tall enough to nearly reach the water line (e.g., colts or finger leathers, gorgonians, toadstools,that sort of thing) and topping the right side with short-growing stuff like the blastos and acans etc. But from the species list it you gave it doesn't look like you're planning on keeping anything that grows very tall, which trumps what I was picturing.

Thanks anyway. I won't be devastated if they don't take off, but it's certainly a cool critter to be able to observe, so I hope I can at least keep this one (or two) alive.

Yeah, they're neat. There's a species that shows up in the trade from time to time under the misnomer of blue lollipop 'coral' that I'd love to try some day if I ever think I have a chance of maintaining it.

Indeed, things are expensive here and I think this place is more expensive than most. On the other hand, you're getting stock direct from the people catching the fish off the reef, which is kind of attractive, partly as I think it is valuable income in the poorest prefectures in Japan, directly linked to keeping the reef as healthy as possible. The reefs off Ishigaki island are much healthier than the reefs off the main island in Okinawa (devastated by construction site run-off) and this might help create the constituency within Ishigaki to keep it that way. On the other hand, I will probably only buy from them if I can't find somewhere where I can see the fish in a tank before purchasing.

On a lot of things the prices aren't too bad; redspot cardinals for around 1700 yen is pretty comparable to what they go for in most places here, for example. But one species that caught my eye, the goby that looks like a dart fish whose name I can't recall offhand, they have for 35,000 yen. On the rare occasions when those are actually available here I've seen them go for around 3 for $120.

I'm seriously leaning towards an Okinawa biotope tank at the moment actually. I think it'd be kind of cool to have a tank with rock and fish all from Okinawa. Trouble is, it's not permitted to take any stony corals from the wild in Okinawa, so I wouldn't be able to buy LPS that way. So it might end up being a biotope only in terms of fish...

Reef biotope tanks are always hard to pull off, it seems. I wonder what soft coral species are found in okinawan waters? Not what you're looking to keep, I know, but I'm curious.