Ryder's Rimless Starphire 90g Build Thread

[ryder11211]

Starting my first saltwater 90 gallon rimless starphire (36x24x24) tank. Been reading this board, reefcentral and glassbox-design for about 18 months so I'm a newbie, but at this point, a reasonably well-read newbie. I just picked up my tank on sunday in White Plains after ordering it from Glass Cages about a month ago. So, now that I actually have the tank itself, and due to the fact that I will need some input shortly, it's time for a build thread!

Let's start with the basics: What I have and what I need.

What I have:

-90 gallon rimless reef-ready starphire (36x24x24) tank from glasscages. I was a bit nervous making this order as a "glasscages" google brings up some horror stories. I will confirm that customer service is a bit rough around the edges to say the least, but I am very pleased about the tank itself. I was expecting to see some less than perfect silicone work that would need to be repaired, but I don't think I will have to correct anything. I will post pictures of the tank when I get home tonight.
-ATI Bubblemaster 200 protein skimmer. Thanks Johnny (corals mania)
-40 lb shipment of fiji dry rock from Marco Rocks.
-5 stage RO/DI filter w/dual tds meter from bulkreefsupply
-Salifert test kits
-90% of a 200g bucket of Tropic Marine salt
-Koralia 3

What I want/need to get (please comment or make suggestions):

- A stand (neighbor is helping me, will copy basic Elos stand)
- 6 bulb ATI powermodule or perhaps try to build my own LED unit.
- ATO unit (not sure which)
- Sump (already contacted Custom King)
- Heaters (200 watt ebo jager?)
- Return pump (eheim 1250?)
- Media bags/reactors (want to run carbon, maybe phosban)
- Sand ("Reef grade sea flor")
- Refractormeter (any brand suggestions? they seem pretty similar)
- Plumbing supplies
- Vortech MP40

I am meeting with the stand builder tomorrow morning to discuss it's design. Right now, my only thoughts are to have a stand that runs flush to the tank and opens up for complete access through the front. The back will also need a couple holes to run wires through. Obviously, holes for the drain/return will need to be on the top as well.

So, before I get accosted for not providing pics off the bat (I'll take some tank, rock and future location shots tonight), let me end this with a few questions:

1. Is the eheim 1250 the right return pump for this tank?

2. Should I buy 2 heaters?

3. Most importantly at this point: what should I be doing with the rock? I bought it dry from Marco Rocks, because I found their porous rocks to be the most attractive. Furthermore, since I was taking my time and starting fresh, the process of "cooking" rock to kill any pests was appealling and seemed highly suggested. I believe the vendor already "cycled" his rocks to remove bacteria/nutrients, but I have also been bathing my rocks in RO/DI water for about 15 days now. Does not look like much has come off the rocks but the water is a bit green. What should I do now? I believe I will need to introduce new, beneficial bacteria to the rocks but can this be done without buying new liverock? I am worried introducing new rock would potentially add any nuissances I was trying to avoid. Would using a product like Probidio or Microbacter 7 introduce only the bacteria I want? What about helpful worms/sponges? Basically, I want to add all the good stuff without the bad stuff (of course!), is that possible? Advice here would be great!

So, it begins...

 

[sweetsop]

cool! look forward to some pics.

: )

 

[ecvernon]

ehiems are great pumps. the model you choose may depend on some things.
for example
1. how many drains and returns you have on the tank? 1- 1" bulkhead drains can approximately handle 6oo GPH
2. will you have a manifold for providing flow http://wzus1.reference.com/r?t=p&d=...3DAppliances%26AFID%3Dgoogle%26LID%3D79712225to accessories such as calcium reactor,phospan, chillers etc.(something i wish i designedinstead of having a different pump for everything)

 

[Galantra]

Sounds like you are at a great start and well planned out. my questions are
What are you planning on housing is it going to be a reef tank or something else?
Are you planning on getting more live rock?
What kind of sump are you building? with refugium, deep sand bed, or just rocks.
I am unsure but with Marc's precycled rocks they are just ready to be placed into your tank even though he still says to cure them. was the rock completly dry? and are you soaking it while a powerhead is running to help remove anything lose?

 

[ecvernon]

"but I have also been bathing my rocks in RO/DI water for about 15 days now. Does not look like much has come off the rocks but the water is a bit green."

Maybe i misunderstood do you have the rocks sitting in fresh water?
as for marco rock i usually cycle them in saltwater with a skimmer powerhead and some live rock from an established tank. after a couple of weeks then i feel safe that the rocks are indeed "live" with the beneficial bacteria

 

[ClosetFishGeek]

2 smaller heaters are always better than one. These all regardless of brand have a terrible failure rate. In my sytem I have 3 small units connected to a ranco controller as a failsafe. It is inevitable....it will fail its just a matter of when.
With regards to the media....do not put in bags....get 2 small reactors for your carbon/gfo and make sure you can adjust the flow in each one.
Ato there are many people with different opinions. I like the tunze as well as the one from autotoppoff.com dual stage float. Used bolth and so far neither has failed me.....tip(clean them often.....everyone tends to forget)....
As for eheim they make good pumps but if I remember correctly this pump is roughly 300 gallons per hour and a max head of no more than 7 feet. This i feel by the time you are done with unions, ball valves, and 45's you will be at far less than this already low gph. Your tank is 90 gallons....2-2.4 x's per hour is too low. Up this return pump.
Best of luck......

 

[ryder11211]

ehiems are great pumps. the model you choose may depend on some things.
for example
1. how many drains and returns you have on the tank? 1- 1" bulkhead drains can approximately handle 6oo GPH
2. will you have a manifold for providing flow to accessories such as calcium reactor,phospan, chillers etc.(something i wish i designedinstead of having a different pump for everything)

The tank has a 1.5" drain and 1" return.

Is the second question basically asking whether this one pump will pump to many different locations through plumbing divisions? I would have to answer that I don't know yet. I suppose it would make sense to try to have one pump that could feed all my devices. I'm guessing this would mean I should get the 1260 instead of the 1250?


1250 Hobby Pump
320 gph with a max head of 6.5 feet at 28 watts. Input 16/22 mm, output 12/16 mm. 1260 Hobby Pump
634 gph with a max head of 12.1 feet at 65 watts. Input 25/34 mm, output 16/22 mm.

 

[ryder11211]

"but I have also been bathing my rocks in RO/DI water for about 15 days now. Does not look like much has come off the rocks but the water is a bit green."

Maybe i misunderstood do you have the rocks sitting in fresh water?
as for marco rock i usually cycle them in saltwater with a skimmer powerhead and some live rock from an established tank. after a couple of weeks then i feel safe that the rocks are indeed "live" with the beneficial bacteria

Yes, the rocks are sitting in RO/DI water, no salt added. Just trying to remove everything at this point. I understand that I could add live rocks for bacteria, but I was trying to avoid any pests that could come on that rock, as well as not have to purchase more. It's likely I will go this route, but wanted to see if there were alternatives. I'm afraid I wouldn't even recognize it if I bought rocks with pests..

 

[ryder11211]

Sounds like you are at a great start and well planned out. my questions are
What are you planning on housing is it going to be a reef tank or something else?
Are you planning on getting more live rock?
What kind of sump are you building? with refugium, deep sand bed, or just rocks.
I am unsure but with Marc's precycled rocks they are just ready to be placed into your tank even though he still says to cure them. was the rock completly dry? and are you soaking it while a powerhead is running to help remove anything lose?

Thanks, trying to avoid problems in the future...

Don't really want more rock. Looking for a more "open" aquascape than most tanks (although seems like a lot are moving in that direction). I know I'll lose some benefits of live rock but hopefully with my oversized skimmer, I should be alright.

Gonna do 2-3" of sand, no refugium as I want to try my hand at the vodka dosing method that some have been trying. I've heard this basically prevents a funtioning refugium.

Basically, my goal here is to emulate the tanks of glassbox-design.com and SonnyX's thread on reefcentral..

 

[jrobbins]

If you want to feed all your reactors, chiller, etc. off of one pump you will probably need more than a 1260. maybe a 1262...you will lose a lot of flow feeding all this stuff. great dimensions on the tank though, i can't wait to see pics...

 

[ryder11211]

If you want to feed all your reactors, chiller, etc. off of one pump you will probably need more than a 1260. maybe a 1262...you will lose a lot of flow feeding all this stuff. great dimensions on the tank though, i can't wait to see pics...

I would prefer to not run a chiller. Don't know if that's realistic though. Would really like to keep it simple and minimize any potential points of failure, one of the reasons why running carbon passively was appealing. Also, really trying to keep power usage to a minimum, so the smaller the pump, the better in my books. I'm starting to think I'll go with a 1260. If I don't add a chiller, at least for now, and I use the bulk reef supply dual media reactor, do people think a 1260 should suffice? I plan on having almost all of my water movement supplied by the MP40, not the return pump.

 

[jrobbins]

it all depends on how you do your plumbing, how tall the stand is, etc...you could probably do it with a 1260 without any problems, but if you are going to run a manifold having the extra flow to play with could save you some headaches down the road...

 

[ryder11211]

it all depends on how you do your plumbing, how tall the stand is, etc...you could probably do it with a 1260 without any problems, but if you are going to run a manifold having the extra flow to play with could save you some headaches down the road...

AHHHH,

That reminds me, I almost forgot.... How tall should I make the stand?

I was thinking it would be nice to be able to "look down" on the tank, but now that I have it, I'm thinking it might be too tall of a tank (@ 24") for that to make sense.

So, what does everyone think about the perfect height of a stand? I am 6'1", if that factors in...

Between 30" and 36" I would imagine...?

 

[ryder11211]

 

[PolandSpring]

wow ...seems like you know what your doing and it will be a great tank ... If only i can go back and change all those things that im having a problem with now i would! Take it slow and everything will be how you want it to..goodluck, cant wait to see livestock in it

 

[cali_reef]

few suggestions:

1. make the slots on the acrylic overflow cover bigger, at least 1/4" wide. I don't know why GC still built them that way, you can't get more than 100 gallon thru the saw blade cuts the have.

2. make your stand with as much room as possible, 36x24 is not a very roomy space. a basic kitchen cabinet casework with overlay doors will provide the most space. 30" or 36" height don't make too much difference.

3. soak your rocks in salt water ASAP, it will take time to de-compost and wash out all the dead stuff in the dried rocks. You might want to look into introduce beneficial bacteria via commercial bottled stuff.

4. you should buy at least few pounds of rocks and few cups of sand from an established tank, look out for hair algae, bubble algae, and everything else you don't want. The crap from the LFS won't work. This will help bring in the pods, mini stars, and bristle warms you need to have a diverse bio system.

 

[fernandokng]

I agree that you need a diverse bio system, but I'd still avoid anything that is live. Your system will eventually develop into one on its own, albeit it will take longer. However, you can avoid all the pests you get from other tanks, and I'd rather do that then spend all my time to kill one bugger that got into my system.

I'm glad you've done your reading, and starting with marco rocks is a great step!

 

[ryder11211]

few suggestions:

1. make the slots on the acrylic overflow cover bigger, at least 1/4" wide. I don't know why GC still built them that way, you can't get more than 100 gallon thru the saw blade cuts the have.

Definitely will do... was pretty sure I would need to do this... will ask my stand builder to increase the width of those slots.

2. make your stand with as much room as possible, 36x24 is not a very roomy space. a basic kitchen cabinet casework with overlay doors will provide the most space. 30" or 36" height don't make too much difference.

I anticipate this being one of the more difficult challenges, getting everything to fit. Luckily, I am starting from scratch so hopefully I can plan this out correctly. I met with the stand builder this morning. He is going to use 1" thick oak plywood and the stand will look like this, but with a nice wood finish

3. soak your rocks in salt water ASAP, it will take time to de-compost and wash out all the dead stuff in the dried rocks. You might want to look into introduce beneficial bacteria via commercial bottled stuff.

I will add salt tonight. Morton's is a good brand?

(I kid)

4. you should buy at least few pounds of rocks and few cups of sand from an established tank, look out for hair algae, bubble algae, and everything else you don't want. The crap from the LFS won't work. This will help bring in the pods, mini stars, and bristle warms you need to have a diverse bio system.

I need to make up my mind about this because I am not sure what the best route is. Most people say to add some already established live rock, while others seem to claim that the bacteria will evolve on it's own. I plan to introduce a bacterial supplement. Something like Probio Biostart to make sure I start off with some beneficial bacteria. I think I've also seen people introduce live pods and stuff like that to seed the tank.

I don't really mind buying some live rock from an existing tank, but damn is it going to suck if that I realize ten months down the road that that's what causing this aiptasia/hair/bubble algea/mantis shrimp/AEFW problem.

I feel like this is the one time (before starting) that I am going to have complete control over all aspects of the system, so I want to make sure I take advantage..

 

[cali_reef]

I agree that you need a diverse bio system, but I'd still avoid anything that is live. Your system will eventually develop into one on its own, albeit it will take longer. However, you can avoid all the pests you get from other tanks, and I'd rather do that then spend all my time to kill one bugger that got into my system.

I'm glad you've done your reading, and starting with marco rocks is a great step!

Hard to almost impossible get different types and size of pods, bristle warms, mini feather dusters, mini star fish (the list goes on....) in a new tank.

 

[cali_reef]

I need to make up my mind about this because I am not sure what the best route is. Most people say to add some already established live rock, while others seem to claim that the bacteria will evolve on it's own. I plan to introduce a bacterial supplement. Something like Probio Biostart to make sure I start off with some beneficial bacteria. I think I've also seen people introduce live pods and stuff like that to seed the tank.

I don't really mind buying some live rock from an existing tank, but damn is it going to suck if that I realize ten months down the road that that's what causing this aiptasia/hair/bubble algea/mantis shrimp/AEFW problem.

I feel like this is the one time (before starting) that I am going to have complete control over all aspects of the system, so I want to make sure I take advantage..

I used Prodibio for about 8 months when I started one of my tanks, I don't think it did anything for me at all.. I was also not very good with adding stuff in the tank every day, a little too much work for my schedule.

You can't get AEFW from just bare live rocks, everything else I mentioned you can see, avoid and\or treat. I would try hard to see tanks from members here and beg them to sell you small amount of rocks and sand from their system once you have visually confirm they don't have any pest. Offer and buying few pounds of rocks @ retail price from them will be beneficial in getting the tank started.