chiromanta

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Hi all.
Two weeks a go I finish cycling my new 165g tank. The tank was purchased so I move my 65g to 165g. I drop 3 fishes in from 65 (2 tangs and a clown) so they check the ground. A week later I plased some mushrooms, recordea, GSP, Xenia, and birds nest frag in it to further evaluate surviving rate. Everybody is doing fine. I was suppose to do a main transfer in a week from today( a lot of LPS, some SPS softies and inverts)
Today I have notice the beginning of Diatom Bloom. That may take few month to get rid of.
Should I still go with the plan and do the rest of the move? What are the effects of Blooming Diatoms on coral population? I have never had this before.
Should I start running phosbun? Help is needed.
 

chiromanta

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Now when few days pass it is definitely brown dust.
Where do I go from here.
Just check all water parameters. everything within range. Everybody out of my test team is doing good, except for Zoa's. they seem to start to meld down.
List of things that do good:
Mushrooms, Recordea, bird nest,
Is it possible that the water is too clean for Zoa's. They use to have some very low Phosphate level and a bit of Nitrates.
 

offdahooklikeoj

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I wouldnt read to much into the zoas, some zoas are very finicky and just melt. The diatoms will eventually go away once sponges start to grow. I would just continue regular maintenance and water changes.
 

chiromanta

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I wouldnt read to much into the zoas, some zoas are very finicky and just melt. The diatoms will eventually go away once sponges start to grow. I would just continue regular maintenance and water changes.
Actually I have not done a single water change since the beginning of the cycle. I am not a believer in doing water changes during this period. It dilutes nutrients that bacteria needs to grow on. And also, all the cycle the tank was dark.
But now, I think I will do 20% water change. It sounds like a good idea.
Should I run carbon reactor for a few days just to get the crap out of the water? It looks a bit with yellow tint. Again, all my numbers are fine. May be it is just diatoms suspended in the water.but my skimmer would pick them up and it did not.
 

ReefBum

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Frequent water changes for a newly cycled tank is a really good idea. I assume you probably have some nitrates so you want to get that down. What are your phospate levels? Assume you are using RODI but you want to make sure you don't have elevated levels, which could be feeding the diatoms.
 

chiromanta

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Frequent water changes for a newly cycled tank is a really good idea. I assume you probably have some nitrates so you want to get that down. What are your phospate levels? Assume you are using RODI but you want to make sure you don't have elevated levels, which could be feeding the diatoms.

Hi. just did a water test few days a go. No nitrates of Phos, i do use RODI water.
I believe that it is a silicates in the new sand feeding diatoms. started to run carbon reactor, just to get the rest of the stuff out of the water. my skimmed does not pick up anything, and i have a awesome skimmer.
did half of the transfer. everything except SPS's, which i will do upcoming Wednesday.
Will do 20% water change this weekend and will introduce the clean up crew. have been increasing bio load with fish and feeding.
 

1329eheim

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Actually I have not done a single water change since the beginning of the cycle. I am not a believer in doing water changes during this period. It dilutes nutrients that bacteria needs to grow on. And also, all the cycle the tank was dark.
But now, I think I will do 20% water change. It sounds like a good idea.
Should I run carbon reactor for a few days just to get the crap out of the water? It looks a bit with yellow tint. Again, all my numbers are fine. May be it is just diatoms suspended in the water.but my skimmer would pick them up and it did not.

I agree with your not doimg WCs during cycle. But once cycle is complete, I would use weekly WCs to siphon off the diatoms.

Good luck,

Mike
 

chiromanta

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Hi all. the diatoms are starting to subside. had battled a ick outbreak in new 165G. still don't understand how it was possible. every fish was quarantine and treated with copper.
I guess parasite is traveled on the corals that I transferred.
was able to completely stop the ICK outbreak with Kent garlic extreme and cleaner shrimp, soaking food in it for 20 min. highly recommended. 5 fish was infected, all recover within a week. not the first time i am doing this, you have to try for yourself.
 

1329eheim

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Hi all. the diatoms are starting to subside. had battled a ick outbreak in new 165G. still don't understand how it was possible. every fish was quarantine and treated with copper.
I guess parasite is traveled on the corals that I transferred.
was able to completely stop the ICK outbreak with Kent garlic extreme and cleaner shrimp, soaking food in it for 20 min. highly recommended. 5 fish was infected, all recover within a week. not the first time i am doing this, you have to try for yourself.

Jeez, I hate to post this, and I apologize to OP because absolutely no offense is intended. But IMO if your fish survived ich while you fed them garlic, this was a coincidence A post hoc, ergo propter hoc kind of thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and who says I'm not) but I have not seen ANY scientific studies that have found garlic can prevent or treat ich.


Mike
 

chiromanta

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Jeez, I hate to post this, and I apologize to OP because absolutely no offense is intended. But IMO if your fish survived ich while you fed them garlic, this was a coincidence A post hoc, ergo propter hoc kind of thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and who says I'm not) but I have not seen ANY scientific studies that have found garlic can prevent or treat ich.


Mike
Hi Mike.
No offense taken.
this is my story....
I have two reef set up. One is 65G and the other is 165G. Both have very complex aquascaping that does not allowed to remove fish and quarantine it.
I know only two methods of treating ICK in the tank and those are
1: quarantine the fish and treat the tank and fish with copper.
2: Hyposalenity.
Both choices will wipe out everything in your tank except for fish.
Most of the aquariums do have ICK parasite larva but fish shows no visible signs of it due to good immune system response.
When your fish is stressed for whatever reason, the immune response goes down as well as protective coating on the fish. ICK is an opportunistic parasite and it will affect the stressed fish. that is why you can have sick and healthy fish in the same ecosystem. Same works for people. in a winter time you can work with sick people around you and don't get sick. I am a doctor and I know a bit about sick people, just a bit. lol.
The reason why I do garlic treatment for fish, as well as people, is to improve their immune system and help their body to fight the parasite. I also supplement fish food with vitamins and essential fatty acids. I do the same with people.
In fish, it improves the eating response, and also saturates their blood with garlic oil.
As we know, ICK parasite is feeding on fish blood. They are also live in a short range of favorable conditions for them. when those conditions are not met they look for a different host which is weaken buy stress or disease.
So, to make the long story short, this is my reasons why I do garlic treatment.
I can't take the fish out, so I do what i can to deal with this condition in the tank.
I also ran UV sterilizer with 35W and capability to do at least level 1 sterilization. that helps to keep the level of free swimming parasite down. It does not kills all ICK parasites, but keeps their number low. The sterilizers that can't do Level 1 sterilization will do nothing for your ICK in the tank, so no point of spending money on those.
Also, my 65G system has no UV sterilizer, and I was able to achieve the same results in regards to ICK.
I write this only to share my personal experience with fighting ICK repeatedly on several occasions. Every time i did that, I was aware that there is a high chance of me loosing my life stock, and it was my conscious choice still to go forward.
All those time it was a success.
Is it going to be the same result for you? I don't know.
All I know is ICK can wipe your system in a matter of days, and a lot of times i don't have ability to catch the fish and quarantine it before its too late. So garlic is what I do.
I hope that was helpful in any way.
 

1329eheim

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Thanks for your very thoughtful and diplomatic reply.

I have a 75 and 180 and agree 100% that hyposalinity and copper are not viable options in reef tank and that UV sterilizer won't work either.

I have such remarkably low survival rates QTing new fish that I no longer do it.

I have had fish with ich in both tanks but for some reason it did not spread to other fish. I did nothing other than to maintain optimum tank condition and that seemed to work. My theory is that if fish are healthy enough they will not succumb to ich. I guess the only thing we differ on is whether garlic can keep fish healthy enough to withstand ich infection. And my conclusion is that if it works for you, go for it.

Regards,

Mike
 

chiromanta

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Thanks for your very thoughtful and diplomatic reply.

I have a 75 and 180 and agree 100% that hyposalinity and copper are not viable options in reef tank and that UV sterilizer won't work either.

I have such remarkably low survival rates QTing new fish that I no longer do it.

I have had fish with ich in both tanks but for some reason it did not spread to other fish. I did nothing other than to maintain optimum tank condition and that seemed to work. My theory is that if fish are healthy enough they will not succumb to ich. I guess the only thing we differ on is whether garlic can keep fish healthy enough to withstand ich infection. And my conclusion is that if it works for you, go for it.

Regards,

Mike
Just to add to my story a bit, I did an experiment a while back. I bought two Hippo tangs and add them to my tanks. One went to 65g and other to 165g. Both fish got Ick within two days. Hippo tangs are notorious for getting Ick. The conditions in two tanks were very similar and no other fish had Ick. Both tangs were about 3" long and showed feeding response in LFS. They were both coming after a Cuper treatment in LFS who does it standard on all new arrivals.
The one in 165g got no "garlic treatment" and was fed garlic only two times a week.
The one in 65g would receive garlick 3 times per day with all the other tank mates. I ran the treatment for two to three weeks depending on recovery rate. Usually, I continue treatment for a week after last visible parasite on the skin. I do it because Ick enters the other state out of 3 stages of parasite development (free swimming larvae) and can still reinfect the host. He made it through and did not infect any other fish.
The one in 165G died within two weeks. At some point it seemed that he beat the Ick, but then it came back with the vengeance. No other fish got the condition.
Could it be a coincidence? Yes it could.
Can you flip a coin 10 time and got the tails. Yes you could. But the liklyhood is low. S
So, it seems to me that there is some kind of pattern related to garlic (behind the only variable).
Well, there is an other variable, the fish in 65G was fed 3 times per day vs once or twice in 165G system.
As for me, I still leaning towards the garlic side of the spectrum. Lol
 

chiromanta

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I believe that this hobby evolves because people do unconventional things and some times it works and produce unique results.
Imagine the person who started dosing Vodka or Vinegar to their tank first time ever.
How did he felt without knowing the doses and why did he even think about it?
An other one is: Why would Kent and other companies even make garlic solutions when there is NO garlic in the ocean?
Regards
Boris.
 

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