Must Read Information about the Marine Aquarium Council

[naesco]

Jaime is right we are all on the same side.
We have reason to believe the MAC will change like they have stated publically they would.

We are interested in waiting a reasonable amount of time to see that the cyanide tests are in place.

Hear me !! We will support MAC until it is proved different.
We are not interested in supporting something other than MAC at this time. We are not interested in some coup or another organization getting involved in certification. That will not happen.

When MAC fulfills it promise on the cyanide issue we will all get behind them and help them with the other just issues that are raised. We support and will support the fishers because their cause is just. If they work harder to catch MAC certified fish they deserve moremoney and will get it.
Please pass that message to the parties you represent in the Phillipines.

Gentlemen, Ladies we are on the same fucken side!!

 

[PeterIMA]

Naesco, If you represent the MAC in any capacity identify yourself. Otherise, perhaps you should encourage MAC representatives to identify what they know they can deliver with regard to the things you "hope" will happen. If I seem more sceptical, it is because I have been involved with these problems longer (since about 1983). There are alternative solutions to these problems.

Peter Rubec

 

[dizzy]

Peter,

I too would like to know who naesco is and who kalkbreath is. They are hidding something.

 

[naesco]

Peter I do not represent MAC in any capacity
I am doing everything I can to see MAC succeed and succeed in its committment to institute random cyanide testing.
I have been in contact with Paul Holthus and, MAC and other wholesalers with my view and my concerns.

I want you to know that I fully understand why some posters are sceptical and want to see it happen before they get any hope up.
I have come to the realization that MAC is our last chance. If MAC fails, we fail.

I would love to hear from you about alternative solutions you may have both on or off this thread.

Wayne Ryan

Dizzy/PeterIMA re: who am I; You have mail

 

[Anonymous]

Nice to see you learned the personal pronouns. Keep using them, it makes your points easier to understand. Don't say "we" and "us" if it's your opinion.

 

[naesco]

Sorry it is the `Royal we`; must be a Canadian thing, eh! Done for emphasis like underlining or capitals.

 

[clarionreef]

Last chance?
Please. It is not the last chance! It may be precisely the fact that the seat is occupied that another cannot take its place! Another more qualified and sincere.
As the issue come to a head again, there is really a chance to ignite something real because of all the errors revealed.
Each era of errors on this thing should be moving us closer to reality on it. The innocence and inexperience of the major players cannot remain so. They've got to be getting better and more accurate, one would think.
The agenda is evolving closer to a more credible one. The divers, justice for them and expanding the number of net collectors [an inadvertant admission of training failures by the way] is now on the front burner...almost by force.
Just remember how it got there. It wasn't peaceful or very polite but now it is what the aquarium world is talking about the most.

Finally the cart is being positioned behind the horse...There. That only took a year! Patience? Give it a chance? What do you call the sacrifice of a years effort to redefine the agenda to frontload diver training and field work? [ so that there can be something to later certify?]
Now that there is a majority acceptance of this approach, can we can all agree that the next significant achievement must not take another year?
Steve


Steve

 

[naesco]

Steve I do not follow the first three lines of your post. Please explain.

I put forward three months.(for the establishment of random cyanide testing in the Phillippines
Do accept that that is reasonable?
One year is far too long I agree.

 

[My Hairy Ass]

Sincerely,
Peter Rubec
International Marinelife Allliance
Authorized to speak on behalf of the Palauig Net Collectors
Authorized by Pedro Aguillon, Provincial Fisheries Officer Iba Zambales

But not, I believe, authorized to speak on behalf of IMA in ANY capacity.

 

[dizzy]

Does the hairy ass have the cohones to use a real name or are you another kalkbreath?

 

[My Hairy Ass]

Mitch et al.

I was under the impression that on discussion groups it is quite acceptable to use a moniker and also be anonymous. Let's just say I think I know enough about what is going on here to be able to comment? I am quite new to the reefs.org site, not to reefs themselves, so it has taken me some time to catch up with the topics, threads etc.

For your information, I do not represent MAC or the industry, I am an interested party is all.

MHA

 

[PeterIMA]

Response to Harry Ass, Unless you are part of IMA (which I doubt) don't presume IMA's official position. You can expect an official Position Paper from IMA to be released soon.
Dr. Peter Rubec
One of original three founders of IMA
Member of IMA Board of Directors
Senior Research Scientist for IMA
Speaking on Behalf of the Collectors

 

[clarionreef]

Hello,
The first three lines had to do with the notion that the girlfriend you're with displaces the settlement of another. If a vacuum occurs, ie. she dumps you or moves on, then the space is available for recruitment again.
Haribon displaced other reform activity in Manila for a few years, then the IMA "had it handled" for much of the 90's and now its MAC. If not MAC then the sky will fall, we're told by all the newbies and neophytes.
MAC will adapt or die, plain and simple. It either gets real and learns to embrace the village as something more than cheap labor for the exporters cartel or it will sell out to the exporters agenda and ruin itself with all who are on to them.
Little does Paul know that the exporters are extremely against economic justice for the divers and the sustainable methodology that can motivate. Sure a win-win would be nice.
Foxes win and chickens win...right?
Think hard people. The exporters won their advantages and developed their mindsets under the Marcos regime of oppression and exploitation. No white bread, knaive goody two shoes notions are going to work peacefully or rationally. Without a demonstration of power ie. the proverbial gun at their heads, they are just going to "wink wink" and smile and curse you under their breath as you turn to the door.
A new generation of more rational and environmentally motivated exporters are trying to emerge but by allowing the cyanide cartel to proceed unchecked and by denying fish supply thru incompetent trainings ["looked good on paper to paper pushers though"]...these reformers are in serious trouble. [ regard the Marivi letter , which came out before the Ferdi letter and kicked off this latest round]
A serious training movement could've and still can even the playing field a lot more and give the reformers a chance to compete against the conventional exporters. Certifying and even cyanide testing without training the divers first is an exercise in futility. Reformers have no blue tangs or clown triggers to fight back with. How are they supposed to compete!?
Competent commercial collector training can finally happen on a large scale if allowed to. The decades long denial of this has always insured the failure of all relevant and associated reform moves.
Real training has been denied for tthree basic reasons:
1. NGOs have never allowed commercial professionals to run trainings. They're always run to the standards of inept outsiders.
2. Conventional exporters have not wanted them as they are a de-facto admission of a cyanide problem. Also trainings empower and show respect for divers...a thing bad for continued, calculated exploitation.
3. Turf battles, competition between NGOs, excessive egos, politics and fighting over and for money have always been greater goals and priorities, not their mission statements.
The routines and syndromes that bring predictable failure must end... The trade needs to have its own professional, no nonsense people on the inside of this. People who actually know a fish or to.
This thing is way too important to leave to outsiders anymore. They fail and declare victory too often, hiding the truth of matter...so years go by that you imagine things are being done and taken care of and...wham! Here it is again, like unpaid taxes!
MACs pending link with CORL could give them the experience they lack...but its still...pending.
This should be an important month of activity.
Steve Robinson
Pres. AMDA

 

[naesco]

Steve I see you are a poet too
Your comments seem to left wing for an American. Are you one of us, eh?

The next couple of months are going to be really interesting. Hold onto your hat.

 

[naesco]

So Hairy you are entitled to use your moniker if you choose.
But, what IS going on?
Thanks

 

[Kalkbreath]

Hey , its one thing to have three posts on your Harry Ass and quite another to have been a Kalkbreath for 700 ...i only post as Kalkbreath and i typ sooo poorly that i could not fool anyone with another Handle.
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