Kalkbreath":gvb5k4e1 said:Do a test, finding the smallest concentration of cyanide that stuns fish slightly enough for collection {And allows then fish to survive for weeks later} and still harms the coral.
Im not suggesting that cyanide does not harm the fish, Does its use by hobby collectors have a significant effect on the corals ? Or better yet ......is there even very much cyanide fishing still going on today? There sure seems to be a lot of rumors and very little evidence of its use today........?Have you ever actually seen a coral reef harmed by Cyanide fishermen ? How about even a photo of a dead coral,killed for sure by a pet fish collector? If not, then why would you take the word of competing fish collectors as "proof"?JennM":3cmnenfj said:Kalkbreath":3cmnenfj said:Do a test, finding the smallest concentration of cyanide that stuns fish slightly enough for collection {And allows then fish to survive for weeks later} and still harms the coral.
Yeah, just for a "few" weeks -- long enough to get to the end user, the hobbyist. :roll:
Coral damage notwithstanding - if the fish only lives for a few weeks ....
Nevermind.....
I think I'll go inhale just enough Asbestos to not get lung cancer for a few more years....
Jenn
I order blue tangs each week...... not only can I get them each week directly from PI, but they are given an "XX" meaning that they are in great abundance from that supplier{and they do better then those from Solomons , Hawaii or Bali?...........The total number of exported fish are down in the Philippines because the whole hobby is consuming less fish......its called less demand.....Please actually read the Woods Report...........Yes, Majestic angels are rare........not just in PI but every other country as well....Overfishing in PI is not why they are hard to collect in other places in the world!....Its a rare fish........It always has been............The reason there are less in PI is that all the large adults have been killed by food industry cyanide fishing. Because Angles like to hide in the coral instead of swim away.......When the sea food guys nuke a reef with cyanide ....it kills many of the non targeted fish like Angels.......But at the levels the food fishermen juice with ...it kills the angelss right then in the reef.......Also have you heard of the idea that cyanide binds up within the Algae growing on the reef?...... when grazing fish like Angels and tangs feed on the tainted algae.....they consume and digest cyanide..? {MAC fish can test positive}............................... You never answered the question.......how many of the tested corals {in the so called "Cyanide test"} showed a reaction to cyanide similar to the wild example shown as "evidence "{Photo in the article in Advanced Aquarius...?} ( only a small white portion} Again, the majority of the time cyanide is used to collect hobby fish, it is at a level small enough to not out right kill the fish ...........unless you use fish within the test, you will never prove that the level of cyanide used in your test is at levels anywhere near whats actually being used out on the reefPeterIMA":307z2a4e said:Kalk,
This is the most preposterous batch of lies you have yet concocted.
First, the damage to Philippine reefs is severe and there is not an improvement that you claimed. This is supported by the most recent underwate reef surveys conducted by Dr. Edgardo Gomez at the University of the Philippines. There have been significant decline in landings from the marine fisheries (both commercial and municipal) that is undoubtedly related to habitat degredation resulting from destructive fishing. Dr. Alan White (formerly with ICLARM) has a nice publication. documenting this.
With regard to your completely unfounded suppositions about SPS corals. Lets accept that the most susceptable coral genus was Arcopora. The test colonies shed their tunics and died within 24 hours. Most SPS corals sold are in the genus Acropora. It is the dominant genus on the reef. The branching Acropora skeletons provide important three dimensional hiding places for reef fishes seeking cover.
There have been declines in the total numbers of aquarium fishes exported and high end species like Majestic angelfish are becoming very scarce. Even blue tangs have disappeared from the price lists of Filipino exporters. The only areas where some of the species you listed now occur in commercial quantities is in the southern Philippines where Moslem rebel groups exist. Net training in these areas will be extremely risky. So, I assume that the species mentioned are being caught with cyanide which continues to degrade the few existing healthy reefs.
If challenge you to substantiate your preposterous claims. I can provide documentation to substantiate mine.
Peter Rubec
PeterIMA":38p761xf said:Kalk,
This is the most preposterous batch of lies you have yet concocted.
First, the damage to Philippine reefs is severe and there is not an improvement that you claimed.{I NEVER SAID THERE WAS} This is supported by the most recent underwate reef surveys conducted by Dr. Edgardo Gomez at the University of the Philippines. There have been significant decline in landings from the marine fisheries (both commercial and municipal) that is undoubtedly related to habitat degredation resulting from destructive fishing. Dr. Alan White (formerly with ICLARM) has a nice publication. documenting this.{ALL HOBBY FISH NUMBERS ARE DOWN >>ITS CALLED REEF TANKS}
With regard to your completely unfounded suppositions about SPS corals. Lets accept that the most susceptable coral genus was Arcopora. The test colonies shed their tunics and died within 24 hours. Most SPS corals sold are in the genus Acropora. It is the dominant genus on the reef. The branching Acropora skeletons provide important three dimensional hiding places for reef fishes seeking cover.{I DONT RECALL STATING OTHERWISE?}
There have been declines in the total numbers of aquarium fishes exported and high end species like Majestic angelfish are becoming very scarce. Even blue tangs have disappeared from the price lists of Filipino exporters. {TOTAL NONSENSE}The only areas where some of the species you listed now occur in commercial quantities is in the southern Philippines where Moslem rebel groups exist. Net training in these areas will be extremely risky. So, I assume that the species mentioned are being caught with cyanide which continues to degrade the few existing healthy reefs.
If challenge you to substantiate your preposterous claims. I can provide documentation to substantiate mine.{IM NOT SURE WHAT THE QUESTION IS}
Peter Rubec
