[FastUno]

Here is my experience with this.

I put together a 55g with a very shallow sandbed & discovered that it was the worst thing that I could do. I did not get the benefit of a DSB nor the benefits of a BB. Deitrus would accumulate & build up very quickly, with no easy way to remove the particulates. Over 2-3 months I had a bad case of cyano. I did weekly water changes, but nothing would solve it. I had a fuge with a DSB connected & when I broke this up I noticed so much crap in the DSB. The water looked very cloudy when the sand was moved.

When I moved everything over to a 90g I had decided to go BB with a BB sump. I have not seen any cyano, do water changes every 3-4 weeks, & have tons of coralline growth.

Also, based upon what I have seen from experience (& others systems) I have come to conclude this:
-adding chaeto to your fuges does not cause your nitrates or nitrites to drop, not significantly anyway. Maybe other macros, such as caulerpa, might do a better job? If anything, your fuge might add to nutrient build up, due to all the critters that are there. A fuge is great for feeding your tank!

-biting my tongue on this one. The cleanup crew that you have added is more of a poop crew. The pressure that they put on your bio load outweighs the advantage.

-best thing that you can add to benefit your system is a clam. The more clams the merrier, up until the point your system can no longer support clams. If skimmers were efficient then mother nature would have invented a bubbling clam.

[ May 26, 2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: FastUno ]

[nanoreefer22]

Fast why a clam?

Kris

[marrone]

Actually when I added a refug to my tank I notice a great improvement in my overall levels, nitrates alot lower, and my corals seems to do alot better. I did, and still do, have different type of micro plants in my refug.

When I broke down my 35 hex the DSB didn't have any bad smell to it and was pretty clean. I'm not sure not that I have a much smaller SB in my tank I'll lose some of the benefit of the DSB. I think for a DSB to work correct you need the right critters to move around the sand and not eat the good things in the sand. Will you get the same results with a much small SB, having the same critters, I'm not sure yet but after about 3 months or so my tank seems fine.

[FastUno]

Clams are filter feeders. Try putting a clam in a container of water & add somy phyto, cyclo, whatever else you want. You will notice that in a very short time, the water will be clear.

If a clam can do this in a smaller container, imagine what they can do in your tank over a period of time. I have been paying attention & it seems that those individuals who have clams in their tank seem to have a more successful system. Less worries & equipment (i.e. more powerful skimmer).

I agree about the DSB, you need some good movement by critters. In this case the critters would come very handy, the better they are at moving only the top layer of sand, the better your system will be.

[nanoreefer22]

You could write a book on that if it's true and be remembered in the reef world forever.

That makes sense. When my system is ready for a clam I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for the info buddy.

-Kris

[FastUno]

Some observations that I have noticed after placing my clam in for the first time.
1-my water looked like I had done a water change after a few hours
2-tank lights appeared surprisingly brighter to me
3-my skimmer was skimming less
4-corals appeared a notch healthier (could just be my dillusional bias)?

[jackson6745]

Quote: Originally posted by GQ22: Has anyone ever used a bare bottom fuge with live rock? i currently have a half inch sand bed which is starting to get covered with algae and my nitrate as 10ppm whereas before they were zero. granted this a brand new fuge, but i am thinking the sand bed has something to do with this as bubbles are coming up from the sand through the algae film. My new idea for a fuge would be bare with live rock mound with a ton of xenia's for nutrtient export. I know people use chaeto but im finding alot of dietrus getting trapped in there. If anyone can offer advice that would be great.

Xenia doesn't remove enough nutrients to make an impact on your nitrates or phosphates. My best advice to you would be to skip the sandbed sponges and get a good skimmer......it's that simple.
I see a lot of reefers fumble with ideas with refugiums, mangroves, DSBs, live rock bins etc... These will work to some extent but have a MAJOR flaw. At some point nutrients will back up into your system (I've experienced this). This doesn't happen with a skimmer unless you pour the collection cup back into the tank [img]smile.gif[/img] . There is no downside from skimming too much IMO from all practical observations. So I say skip all the crap and skim away!!!!

[ May 26, 2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: jackson6745 ]

[FastUno]

Yes, thank you Jackson.

Do a BB sump w/a good skimmer. I have the Deltec 600, which is much better than the Remora I used to have. Overskimming is one of the major keys to success. I have seen this & have heard from countless senior reefers. BB sump allows you to clean up anything that may spill over & get trapped in there.

Skip the fuge, unless you really need to feed your tank. That would be the only reason why I would keep one. I know this one dude who had 1000g system with a huge 120g fuge & countless macros & micro life & his nitrates were at 50ppm.

Don't forget the clams! Plus they look so darn pretty.

[nanoreefer22]

So basically NO sand, HUGE skimmer, NICE clam and the tank is set. Should we add huge flow to that to keep that dirt suspended?

[alrha]

my sump has 2 sections. one has a DSB and one is barebottom. When i do water changes (once a month on avg) i siphon out of the BB and suck out any junk that may have settled there.
my chaeto grows like crazy and does a good job.
no skimmer in my set-up btw.