Slow Continuous Coral Death

[Wes]

Hi everyone. This has been an ongoing problem for me over the last 2 months. Slowly, one by one my corals are dying off. I can't figure this out for the life of me.

All params check out. I have dipped several dead/dying corals in Tropic Marin coral cure and no pests have fallen off.

Ca: 450
kH: 10.5
Mg: 1400
pH: 8.0-8.2
PO4: 0.03 (hanna)
Temp: 79-80 (recently checked w/ mecury thermometer to confirm.
Specific Gravity: 1.026

Weekly 10% water changes with TMPCC

I was using the prodibio system up until a few months ago when i first started experiencing this problem. I stopped all use of the products and started changing out the water with a small change every other day. Didn't help.

I wanted to blame the prodibio but it has been 2 months of the "old school method" and i have not seen any improvement.

This is very disheartening. I have lost over $1000 in corals and still counting.

Currently the corals that have been effected are: SPS of all types, Acans, Chalices, and Favias.

The fish, clams, ricordia, and zoanthids have shown no signs of stress.

It is very strange. One acro will be withering away while the one right next to it looks perfectly fine. Death usually starts at the tips. First signs are messantarial filaments extended at the tips, then tip death, then the death slowly takes over the entire colony.

Fragging the dead tips and supergluing has done nothing. In fact, it seems to speed up the process.

Here are some pics taken today of what is left (not much) Pics show some of the early signs, as well as the advanced stages right before complete death. Please let me know if you have any ideas. I have run out of diagnosis.

Thanks,

Wes

The beginning stages on tyree purple unknown.

Tyree Bali Tricolor

almost dead Mille right next to perfectly normal looking acro

garf bonsai

sunset mille and bennett tricolor. Not looking good

aussie acans shriveled up

a bunch of money worth of dead "designer" LPS

clams and fish looking better than ever...

 

[Wes]

I found some threads on Reefcentral of a couple people have had similar problems. Their theory was it was Pathogen or Bacterial infection. But no confirmation or remedies that I have found.

 

[NYreefNoob]

u checked copper ? ever spray colone or perfume any where near tank u dosing anything else ? wes id take everything out and see if someone can qt corals and see if it makes a difference

 

[jhale]

wes i'm so sorry to see this.
my first guess was a bacterial disease, but then I saw both SPS and LPS are effected.
I did not think the same diseases would be shared between the two, but it looks like I could be wrong. Is there a chance you could place a UV filter on the tank? That might help the disease from spreading.

 

[jhale]

going with what RIck suggested what about placing a polypad in the sump and see if it pulls anything out?

 

[Wes]

u checked copper ? ever spray colone or perfume any where near tank u dosing anything else ? wes id take everything out and see if someone can qt corals and see if it makes a difference

no i havnt checked copper. It never crossed my mind but worth checking. I never use water from anyone else's tank even when purchasing fish and corals. But a copper test is cheap enough to eliminate the possibility.

i never spray anything near the tank and the wife knows better. I don't dose anything other than B-Ionic. Nothing has really changed and I have done many water changes since the problem first started.

Jhale, I will order a UV sterilizer if you think it will help. I am pretty desperate for ideas at this point.

 

[Wes]

going with what RIck suggested what about placing a polypad in the sump and see if it pulls anything out?

good idea. i'll go get one today.

 

[tosiek]

My guess would be it is the prodibio system thats doing it. Whatever you are adding from the prodibio system would not effect clams and fish at all as far as high levels of trace or bacteria or whatever else your using from the system.

what exactly from the system were you using? I know they add iron, strontium and iodine and those trace elements leach into the rock and substrate if there is over excess in the tank and all 3 can kill off coral if too high. Any tests for iodine and stront? They should be monitored if your dosing heavily on top of whatever is already in the salt mixes. Looks like some of the same problems other people had when their tanks crashed after stopping the vodka or other systems out there.

You using P04 remover? LPS are showing the same signs of withering and death as people mixing GFO along with the fauna marin and the other system, forgot the name.

Check out the threads on RC, there are alot of cases where people suspect nitrifying bacteria to go AWOL on coral if theres too much reproducing for the amount of waste they could convert. High amino acid levels that kill off coral and a bunch of things in relation to these systems.

Also, these systems are just not in your water column, the bacteria settles in your LR and substrate, the trace elements leach into the LR LS ect. So water changes and crossing your fingers will not help as much as you want it to. Also be happy this is happening at a slower pace, tank crashes from messing around with non "oldschool methods" usually happen alot quicker and you could have woken up to a bunch of dead coral skeletons.

 

[jhale]

Wes, I don't think the UV will hurt to have. It can only help in the case of bacterial disease.

 

[tosiek]

UV sterilizer wouldn't hurt wes. Poly filter will give a nice home for extra bacteria to grow providing a food source and area to grow on so i dunno if its a good idea if your reading its a bacteria problem.

 

[Wes]

My guess would be it is the prodibio system thats doing it. Whatever you are adding from the prodibio system would not effect clams and fish at all as far as high levels of trace or bacteria or whatever else your using from the system.

what exactly from the system were you using? I know they add iron, strontium and iodine and those trace elements leach into the rock and substrate if there is over excess in the tank and all 3 can kill off coral if too high. Any tests for iodine and stront? They should be monitored if your dosing heavily on top of whatever is already in the salt mixes. Looks like some of the same problems other people had when their tanks crashed after stopping the vodka or other systems out there.

You using P04 remover? LPS are showing the same signs of withering and death as people mixing GFO along with the fauna marin and the other system, forgot the name.

Check out the threads on RC, there are alot of cases where people suspect nitrifying bacteria to go AWOL on coral if theres too much reproducing for the amount of waste they could convert. High amino acid levels that kill off coral and a bunch of things in relation to these systems.

Also, these systems are just not in your water column, the bacteria settles in your LR and substrate, the trace elements leach into the LR LS ect. So water changes and crossing your fingers will not help as much as you want it to. Also be happy this is happening at a slower pace, tank crashes from messing around with non "oldschool methods" usually happen alot quicker and you could have woken up to a bunch of dead coral skeletons.

Tosiek,

I was using the basic 3 parts of the prodibio system.

the digest, optim, and reefbooster. I never dosed any of the iodine and strontium suppliments. just the bacteria, bacteria food, and aminos.

I just recently started using GFO again last week. I was not using it during the prodibio use. I waited until i started seeing the PO4 rise before i started using a small amount of phosar as I have read the same thing as you about the negative effects of using it with the probiotic systems.

Even though i followed the prodibio directions to the T I also suspected it was causing problems. However it has now been 2 months with many many water changes and no signs of improvement. When i saw PO4 levels begin to rise again, I assumed that it meant the bacteria was getting back to "normal" levels.

I have also read that the prodibio bacteria only will live 2 weeks or so if left unfed. If that is the case i should definitely be back to normal bacteria levels. But who knows....This is depressing.

 

[Wes]

UV sterilizer wouldn't hurt wes. Poly filter will give a nice home for extra bacteria to grow providing a food source and area to grow on so i dunno if its a good idea if your reading its a bacteria problem.

honestly i have no idea what the problem is.

I guess a contamination problem is possible. My wife is a neat freak. I always tell her not to use any cleaners near the tank but who knows what goes on when im not around. I caught her getting a little too close for comfort with the hardwood floor cleaner once and yelled at her.

I am going to go get some polyfilters and see if that helps...I never really considered it until nyreefnoob brought it up.

 

[noodleman]

wes, have you tried lowering you alk to around 7-8? When i used to carbon dose, a higher than natural alk will burn the tips. Other people on RC has experienced similar problems while carbon dosing also

 

[Wes]

wes, have you tried lowering you alk to around 7-8? When i used to carbon dose, a higher than natural alk will burn the tips. Other people on RC has experienced similar problems while carbon dosing also

yes i should have mentioned that when using the prodibio alk was held at 7.5. back then. When i was holding it at that level. My pH was a little less than optimal 7.8-8.0. I add some kalk powder to my top-off now to help keep pH up. Alk slowly rose and settled at 10.5 and the pH stays 8.0-8.2 now.

But i definitely did not keep the alk this high when i was carbon dosing.

 

[fernandokng]

Sorry Wes.

Far fetched guess - any stray voltage in the tank? Just got electrocuted today, and figure it was worth bringing it up.

 

[Wes]

Sorry Wes.

Far fetched guess - any stray voltage in the tank? Just got electrocuted today, and figure it was worth bringing it up.

thats actually something i thought about last night. ill get a multimeter from work and check it out.

Thanks

 

[NYPDFrogman]

Wes, sorry to hear about this
I share your pain I'm battling AEFW lost almost 20 colonies and frags

do u have any submersible pumps or heaters in tank?

I had a won bros titanium heater that literally rotted under the rubber boots
tank was doing bad LPS were closed

I also had a rio pump that leaked did a copper test and bingo I had copper in tank!

check any wires, heaters and pumps they all contain copper
good luck!

 

[NYreefNoob]

digest, optim, and reefbooster

used these same 3 for 2.5 months till i ran out and never had any problems lps or sps, stray voltage would be quickly found by sticking a finger in the water :shhh:, u using mag pumps ? could also be rust

 

[Wes]

only thing submersed is the heater. I unplugged till i can take a voltage reading. And 2 tunze streams. Return pump is external. I'll check out the voltage tommorrow.

I added a poly filter pad and a bag of chemipure to the sump today.

 

[frank arriaga]

Sorry to hear this man wes good luck. I would put on a UV.