Seachem Salt - High borate causes high Alk readings

[gil716]

I thought that users of Seachem salt should take note of this thread on RC. Of particular note is a post by nbd13:

"After a long discussion on the zeovit thread, we have found the solution!

Now, people that do NOT run the zeovit system do not have to worry about this as much. Granted, if you are not running the zeovit system, but are still trying to maintain natural salt water (NSW) parameters, then you NEED to take this advice as well.

I will quote a few people:

Thnx. Jeff, yes, according to Habib, the Salifert's KH test incorporates as it's total, both carbonate/bicarbonate alk.+ borate alk., therefore, the true useable alk. is minus the borate alk portion[~20% of the total].

To be honest, Nick, I have no way of proving elemental imbalance, but the mode of STN points one in that direction. However, if the real alk. with using SC salt then is <6, basal TN will result. Bob

I was running at 7 dKH. Bob, Mushur and myself talked about the borate % a few weeks back. We thought %20 but it was added to the dKH so I actually have lowered mine over the last few weeks and things have gotten worse. I thought 7 was actually 8.4 so I have been lowering it with worse results. I am going to raise it up to 9 or so over the next couple weeks and see if that makes a improvent. I beleive this may be the culprit unless seachem comes in and clarifies up what Habib stated...

Natural seawater has a total alkalinity of about 2.5 meq/L, of which about 0.1 ? 0.2 meq/L is from borate. It can be quite helpful though for pH control and Ca, Mg and carbonate solubility to have a higher borate content. This should not be at the expense of carbonate though. We recommend a total alkalinity of about 4 ? 5 meq/L with a borate component of about 1.5 ? 2.0 meq/L.

Hi all, just a few coments & thnx. to Jim[SeaChem] for his posts thus far. With ZEOvit method, the dKH must be between 6 -8 & steady. Lower or higher than those values, eventually results in TN, in a oligotrophic environment. Most KH commericial tests only test carbonate alkalinity as the total, as most saltmixes do not contain appreciable quantities of boron in their make-up. The exception is SC's salt, comprising 3x's the NSW levels of boron.

If Salifert's KH test kit measures only carbonate alk., for instance, with a reading of dKH of 7.4, the real alkalinity would be over 8!! If, however, Salifert's tests borate in the total alk reading, then at dKH of 7.4, for instance, then the true carbonate alk. that our SPS corals actually utilize would be below 6!!.

Having said this, I personally do not think the TN's events are related to borate, as these were basal in nature, & IME, STN beginning at the base of a coral is from parameter or elemental imbalances. Jim, is it possible that when the SC formulation was changed &/or "bad batches"[parameter deficiencies] that trace elements supplements were altered in the make-up? Bob

Now based on the above info:

If you ARE running zeovit, or is you are NOT running zeovit but, trying to maintain alkalinity values that are close to NSW (6-8 dkH), THEN you must....

SUBTRACT 20% from the reading you are getting (this is only if you are using Salifert test kits, I am not sure if the Seachem test kits incorporate borate alkalinity).

For example;

You measure a dkH value of 8 on your Salifert test kit....In reality, you are ACTUALLY testing at 6.4 dkH

or

You measure a dkH value of 10 on your Salifert test kit....In reality, you are ACTUALLY testing at 8 dkH

So, in summary:

If you ARE doing 1 of the following:

1. Using Seachem salt and trying to maintain an alkalinity around NSW (6-8 dkH).
2. Using the zeovit method

THEN:

You MUST subtract 20% from your measured alkalinity values (if you are using Salifert test kits) to obtain the correct/true measured alkalinity value

If you ARE doing the following:

1. Just using the seachem salt mix and NOT trying to maintain NSW parameters or NOT using the zeovit method

THEN

You do NOT need to worry AT ALL about the borate alkalinity.


I hope this makes sense, if not please let me know so I can clarify.

Again, the ONLY test kit I know for SURE takes into account borate alkalinity is Salifert. IF you are using another brand of test kit, I would strongly urge you to ask the company if the alkalinity test kit takes into account borate alkalinity and adjust accordingly.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion. If it is still unclear please let me know and I will clarify.

Nick"


http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=883111

 

[reefman]

does this also applies to seachem reef salt?

 

[jhale]

does this also applies to seachem reef salt?

this is about the reef salt.
seachems reef status test kit will test for carbonate alkalinity, borate alkalintiy and total alkalinity.

 

[gil716]

here's a quote from Habib - owner of Salifert.

IF TESTING WITH A SALIFERT TEST KIT, YOU MUST SUBTRACT APPROXIMATELY 20% FROM THE RESULT TO GET YOUR ACTUAL KH READING!!!!!!!

For all brands of alkalinity kits.

So basically, if you want to keep your alk at natural seawater levels (7.0), you'll need to get a value of 8.8 on your alk test results.

 

[mshur]

guys,
i am the one who brought this topic on zeovit forum. here is the link to this thread
Seachem salt users beware... - zeovit.com
but,folks..keep in mind thisi only for people who running tank at low nutrients sytems. clouse to NSW params.

mike

 

[pecan2phat]

Interesting, Mike.
So why would they have TN issues? Is it because of the 20% over read on alkalinity in the're water parameters?

Since using the salt, my DKH has gone to a steady 10 DKH and my calcium is up also to 460. According to Habib, my actual Alkalinity would then be 8 DKH, which is in line with Seachem's salt mix parameters.
Prior readings when using IO for about 6 months gave me readings of 7.6 to 7.8 DKH on Alkalinity and 405 on Calcium.

 

[mshur]

Hi Warren,
I did notice Tn after using seachem salt in 100% ratio,prior to that i was using 50% seachem and 50% TP with exellent results.NOW, again this is only for nutrient poor system) I running my tank at alk~8, and if u add 20% ,we talking about ~10 wich is very hi for zeo system..plus, seachem had a lot bad batches with very much elements imbalace.
warren, send me ur e-mail. i dont really wanna put any flame in this topic here)
mike

 

[alrha]

If the seachem test kit is used, you can break down exactly how much is carbonate alk and how much is borate alk.
it seems to be just a matter of realizing that some of your alk is borate and not all carbonate.
i dont think they would be adding in extra borate in their salt if it was bad for the tank.