On the LFS behalf

[CHEMCHEF]

I see many threads on this and other forums that start so innocently.
"I was at blah blah store today and they had great stuff for blah blah .99.
4 posts later someone will say I was at this, or some other store in the area and there wer'e so many dead fish.
Blah blah. Thread Close.
My problem is not the thread being closed. My problem is what got it closed.
Bottom line here is Fish Die. Especially when they have been in bags for days in transit.
I have never worked in a fish store. But I have been keeping aquariums of one kind or another for 30+ years. Like I'm sure many of you have.
Haven't we all seen these shipments come in with countless dead fish right out of the bags?
If a LFS does not have a qt system. They really have no choice but to put the live fish in the tanks. Even if weak. To give them a chance at survival.
So from time to time we are going to see dead fish.
So if you are bashing a store for being dirty, or the fish are living in horrible conditions. I applaud you for being a whistle blower.
But "Dead Fish" Really?
I bet everyone one here has had, at best, a 1 dead to 20 live ratio in their tanks. Keeping in mind that YOU!! are choosing the healthy looking fish
Imagine dealing with 100s to 1000s a week of whatever the wholesaler sends you.
Stay Strong guys. It's a rough crowd out here sometimes.

 

[CHEMCHEF]

BTW. If one store is named in this thread for a positive or negative comment.
I would like the mods to close it.
Naming any store is not what this thread was intended for.
It's just my opinion.

 

[greenstreet.1]

No problem if its one or two but some stores have dead fish in each tank or many dead with two or three live ones in the same tank and that I don't like will not buy fish in a store like that.

 

[JDT Reef]

I understand the dead fish thing....my issue is that if when a fish dies, take it out of the tank so that the customers don't see it. Dead fish and dirty tanks in a store in which they are in the business of selling these animals means that they are not paying attention. It's like if a drink spills on the floor of a restaurant, the workers would just ignore it and not clean it up. Well maintained and clean tanks gives the impression that you care about your business. It's your livelihood.

Yeah, I know that not every tank can be spotless every moment of the day, every day of the week. Many fish and corals come and go. Tanks do crash. But if the workers are hanging around, maybe just take a walk around the store, wipe the glass, pay attention to the animals that you want to sell, etc. First and last impressions are everything in any business.

 

[MikeC]

I understand the deaf fish thing....my issue is that if when a fish dies, take it out of the tank so that the customers don't see it. Dead fish and dirty tanks in a store in which they are in the business of selling these animals means that they are not paying attention. It's like if a drink spills on the floor of a restaurant, the workers would just ignore it and not clean it up. Well maintained and clean tanks gives the impression that you care about your business. It's your livelihood.

Yeah, I know that not every tank can be spotless every moment of the day, every day of the week. Many fish and corals come and go. Tanks do crash. But if the workers are hanging around, maybe just take a walk around the store, wipe the glass, pay attention to the animals that you want to sell, etc. First and last impressions are everything in any business.

+100
Don't kid yourself its not one or two fish every once in a wile :fishhit:
And it's not bashing it's the truth to help fellow reefers out.
I know I appreciate someone going the extra mile to help me out so I don't have to wast my time.
Ultimately I will make my own decision but someone shouldn't be quieted or bullied into not speaking their mind.

But then again I'm sure they donate money to MR so if it helps keep the site going I can understand why the squashing of threads happens.
We weed threw the BS and move on.

Happy Reefing :grouphug:

 

[albano]

I understand the deaf fish thing....my issue is that if when a fish dies, take it out of the tank so that the customers don't see it.
Well maintained and clean tanks gives the impression that you care about your business.

Just playing 'devils advocate'....
Which is the 'better' store to buy from?...the one that clears out 10 dead fish every morning before the doors open, or the store with 10 dead fish today, that they haven't thrown out, yet?
(rhetorical question)


On another note...as a moderator, no one has ever told me/asked me/encouraged me to close or delete a thread to 'protect' a paying vendor. The reason for closure is often the 'drama/name calling' that comes from the discussion. The drama of the Long Island LFSs had those threads 'banned' for a while...as far as I know, nothing to do with 'paid vendor' status!

FYI, when you post in the vendor's forum, it is THEIR forum, and they have the ability to edit and delete, as they see fit, although many allow the negative posts to remain.
No one is perfect, but they want you to know that they will try to correct the problems, and keep their customers happy.

 

[CHEMCHEF]

I'm really just trying to point out to people how rapidly these shipped fish die.
Sometimes it's not about cleaning up the dead fish when the store opens.
They die all day.
A store can have multiple weak fish in their system. (Giving them a chance) and suddenly poof. 5 dead fish.
Meanwhile the employees are fielding all kinds of questions from customer from legit ones to " can I keep a shark in my nano??
I agree with not shopping at a store with poor husbandry practices.
But a few dead fish does not mean the store does not care.

 

[Imbarrie]

I think the LFS that does not throw out the dead fish and keep their tanks clean is not concerned with doing what is important in other places of their business.
Agreed that all stores lose a lot of fish in the process, there is no doubt there is no store not affected.
But, I like to visit stores that pay attention to the details of their systems. That includes culling the dead fish, removing the algae, and taking care of their systems.
There is a strong likelihood if they dont bother simply removing the dead fish then they are not doing anything that takes more work. I will even point it out to the employees, if they dont care to scoop it out, they obviously dont care to do other more important things.

 

[MatthewScars]

I understand the deaf fish thing....my issue is that if when a fish dies, take it out of the tank so that the customers don't see it.

I totally agree. You have employees around all the time. I have this issue with aptasia and bubble algae in a tank.

You are presenting your product to customers and you have dead fish and HIGHLY reproductive toxic aptasia just hanging around? Its a poor image to put forward.

Ive heard employees say 'oh we get so much stock its hard to keep up' Well its your freaking job to sell this product and you dont even take the time to clean it up and increase your bottom line?

How many people want to buy a coral with Apt or GBA on it? F that. And this happens at my favorite coral places too.

 

[evoIX_Reefer]

I normally agree with what you have to say but this can't be anywhere near agreeable. If you own a LFS then you should know that your customer service and your business presentation is EXTREMELY important in this hobby. You won't have serious customers if you aren't keeping up with certain issues, like others have stated dead fish, aip, and gba.

Your lfs will unlikely have 10+ customers constantly so there is a lot of downtime for your employees. They should be constantly checking the tanks when they come in and throughout their shift.

If your not helping a customer, cleaning or re-stocking which should have already been done. What else are they doing?

Besides that, you really want to QT your fish prior to being in the display tanks. As you said, they go through a lot of stress prior. Most LFS owners were in the hobby prior to starting their entrepreneurship so this isn't an excuse. You are receiving tons of fish that are stressed and likely those tangs will contain ICK. Clowns may have parasites etc. Don't you think your best bet is to create a small portion of your shop in the back a QT area?

 

[saltwaterinbrooklyn]

I can dig dead fish , I just don't like the lack of care in the process of removing the dead fish, they die of course but when it's white and just a ball of tissue than that's negligence but every shop works differently .

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I think that they should feed any deads to the clean up crew tanks.

 

[CHEMCHEF]

It seems MR posters live in a perfect world. Must be nice. I'd like to visit your world sometime and experience what it's like.
Perhaps I am just more forgiving because I work in a business of perishables.

You have the ability to not buy fish if they look crappy.
Again I am really just trying to point out that fish die. Alot.
Sometimes it may be hard to keep up.
If a store is very busy for an hour or two or three. Some fish may die in that time.
The store also may not want to be scooping memo out in front of little kids that happen to be in the store.
I am not asking anyone too agree with me. I don't care if you do.
As I stated in my second post. This is MY opinion, and will stay my opinion.
Bottom line is it is YOUR responsibility to determine weather a store has bad husbandry practices or perhaps got a weak shipment.
But instead of passive aggressively pointing it out on the forums from your warm cozy living room.
Confront the store when you see it and there may be a logical explanation.

 

[duke62]

I wrote a whole thread on a vendor on here a couple days ago about there system,dead fish,algae,bad customer service and yellow tanks in there forum and the vendor deleted the thread without a explanation in that thread or a PM. I was dying to write another thread on the LI forum but why beat a dead horse. Hopefully the vendor got the point but most likely not. I really wasnt trying to trying to bash but to get a response as to whats going on in his store. But it is what it is and i know know to waste my time driving to Patchogue to visit his store

 

[CHEMCHEF]

I can dig dead fish , I just don't like the lack of care in the process of removing the dead fish, they die of course but when it's white and just a ball of tissue than that's negligence but every shop works differently .

I agree with this1000%. There is a distinct difference between a recently dead fish and on the is stiff as a board and has hair growing in it.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I deleted the thread. It was in the general discussion forum. You said that it was supposed to have been a pm. In tapatalk it did not register in the vendors forum, if it had I wouldn't have deleted it because I will not mod in the vendors forums unless it is requested by the vendor or it is an emergency situation.

 

[CHEMCHEF]

I wrote a whole thread on a vendor on here a couple days ago about there system,dead fish,algae,bad customer service and yellow tanks in there forum and the vendor deleted the thread without a explanation in that thread or a PM. I was dying to write another thread on the LI forum but why beat a dead horse. Hopefully the vendor got the point but most likely not. I really wasnt trying to trying to bash but to get a response as to whats going on in his store. But it is what it is and i know know to waste my time driving to Patchogue to visit his store

I am not speaking about your thread duke. You were stating bad husbandry practices from a seasoned hobbyist perspective. Not a few dead fish.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Either way, the drama is what ends up getting a thread closed. Airing dirty laundry in the forums has no place here.

 

[MatthewScars]

it is YOUR responsibility to determine weather

Dude, I leave that to the weathermen.

You say you dont care, yet you passionately defend your opinion. So decide, do you care or not? I love people that get painted into a corner (im not referring to you) and just say 'oh whatever I dont care!' when that's clearly not the case.

Fish die. OK. Sometimes a fish looks almost dead but then they can come back and be fine for sale. OK. I get it. The thread you were referring to was just some troll trying to be a :cat: and say some random statement for attention, TRUST ME I KNOW!

Still, you, being a business owner as you said, know the importance of perception in business. If a customer comes into your restaurant or whatever you own and sees the dishes and forks are a little dirty, its a negative on you and your business. Will they eat there again? Who knows, but they will leave with that thought of the dirty dish and fork.

Same for LFS. That one 95% dead fish will put that idea in their head. That frag with Apt or GBA on it will put that idea in their head. Apt and GBA dont grow to fully visible size over night, so that is NO excuse. But fish, sure they are busy, but im sure as hell sure they walk by that tank atleast 100 times a day.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

More to the topic. Fish go through a beeotch of a time. Wild caugh, transport to holding location, then the transshipment location, then to the airport to clear customs, then another holding facility, then a wholesale location then the lfs finally to our tanks. All in all keeping an open mind about the stock you are seeing in the lfs tanks (give or take a few steps in the process) a few deaths are to be understood. Give them a little slack. They need it.