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Owning a patent does not mean it has to be high priced. A tablet has hundreds, if not thousands, of patents attached to it selling for sub two hundred dollars while a controller, easily selling for $500, can be built with less than $50(at retail) of hardware and owning no or 1 patent. This is over priced to me because some of us can build that. Of course, there are many who cannot as well. Utility patents are required by law to be licensed if some one asked. But in practice, most small companies will charge outrageous price for "trivial" patent because other small companies would not challenge them in courts for licensing UT patents at unlawful rate. Look at the case of Orbitech vs Solaris. Solaris could have asked the court to settle a lawful UT patent rate if they have the finance to continue the fight.

Patent of attaching a device using magnet on the tank is not new. There were another patent before Vortech got his that I know of. I was thinking to build a mechanical cleaning snail and found someone already patent magnetic mounted cleaner device using similar technology and even the magnetic transfer of energy over to the other side of the device. But this is such a small market, who is going to challenge this patent of wet side and dry side pump? May be until the magnetic cleaning device guy happen to see a Vortech in action. They can charge whatever they want as long as the market can sustain it. I think many people are willing to pay for the sleekness it provides, not the patent it owns. LOL

Most big companies license their UT patents all the time except couple companies who have rely on look and feel trade suits, they tend not licensing UT patents until some one challenge them in courts. This is how most corporate operate along with patent laws currently. For example, one such case is evident in a rectangular box with rounded corner winning in US court for billions dollars in judgement claiming the defendant copies the same formula to build that rounded corner. While the defendant was not awarded much compensation of the UT patents that the plaintiff stole from the defendant in the same US court system. But interestingly, reverse judgements were common in other countries like England, Australia, Japan, Korea and more. In contrast, the penalties are only in millions and an public apology notice by the violator(England verdict) in the website instead of billions of USD. Looks and feel has a high value in US market because we can sustain it. Look at how much we pay for fashion. Do you really think some fabric worth 1/4 million dollars for the actress to wear in the Grammy make any sense? But all the cel. want to tell you how much her skimpy evening clown(Oops, glown) worth more than your coat that has 4 times the fabrics. So to appeal the more willing to spend, the more willing to brag, and the more willing to worship, sometimes we have to jack the price higher to maintain the business model. LOL

To me, over price gadget means, products that should not be selling at such a high margin over the cost. Therefore, the cleaner magnet may also be a candidate in this case.
 
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bhazard451

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Owning a patent does not mean it has to be high priced. A tablet has hundreds, if not thousands, of patents attached to it selling for sub two hundred dollars while a controller, easily selling for $500, can be built with less than $50(at retail) of hardware. This is over priced to me because some of us can build that. Of course, there are many who cannot as well. Utility patents are required by law to be licensed if some one asked. But in practice, most small companies will charge outrageous price for "trivial" patent because other small companies would not challenge them in courts for licensing UT patents at unlawful rate. Look at the case of Orbitech vs Solaris. Solaris could have asked the court to settle a lawful UT patent rate if they have the finance to continue the fight.

Patent of attaching a device using magnet on the tank is not new. There were another patent before Vortech got his that I know of. I was thinking to build a mechanical cleaning snail and found someone already patent magnetic mounted cleaner device using similar technology and even the magnetic transfer of energy over to the other side of the device. But this is such a small market, who is going to challenge this patent of wet side and dry side pump? May be until the magnetic cleaning device guy happen to see a Vortech in action. They can charge whatever they want as long as the market can sustain it. I think many people are willing to pay for the sleekness it provides, not the patent it owns. LOL

Most big companies license their UT patents all the time except couple companies who have rely on look and feel trade suits, they tend not licensing UT patents until some one challenge them in courts. This is how most corporate operate along with patent laws currently. For example, one such case is evident in a rectangular box with rounded corner winning in US court for billions dollars in judgement claiming the defendant copies the same formula to build that rounded corner. While the defendant was not awarded compensation of the UT patents that the plaintiff stole from the defendant in the same US court system. But interestingly, reverse judgements were common in other countries like England, Australia, Japan, Korea and more. In contrast, the penalties are only in millions and an public apology notice by the violator(England verdict) in the website instead of billions of USD. Looks and feel has a high value in US market because we can sustain it. Look at how much we pay for fashion. Do you really think some fabric worth 1/4 million dollars for the actress to wear in the Grammy make any sense? But all the cel. want to tell you how much her skimpy evening clown worth more than your coat that has 4 times the fabrics. So to appeal the more willing to spend, the more willing to brag, and the more willing to worship, sometimes we have to jack the price higher to maintain the business model. LOL

To me, over price gadget means, products that should not be selling at much a high margin over the cost. Therefore, the cleaner magnet may also be a candidate in this case.

Well said.
 

NYreefNoob

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ok, you guys arent comparing apples to apples either. why a vortech over tunze, jabeo or any other company ? smaller foot print inside of the tank, no heat put inside of the tank, incredible customer service, features no other company has, yes you can say i have a controller, but does your pump really do all that the ecotech does ? no. does your pump have a battery back up purchasable ? no. does your pump have the ability for wireless communication ? no

now personally i dont have a apex, i still have my aqua controller junion for about 7 years now. does it do what the apex does ? yes to a point, will it notify me if something is wrong ? no.
you can always find something cheaper, but does it do all the exact same or more ? or does it have the technical support or long term lasting ?

and since you can just turn your stuff on and off by hand, does that hand reach how when your temp goes to high ? will it turn a chiller or fan on ? or turn lights off..

yes you can go without all the bells and whistles and have stuff live, but living doesnt mean thriving
 

bhazard451

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ok, you guys arent comparing apples to apples either. why a vortech over tunze, jabeo or any other company ? smaller foot print inside of the tank, no heat put inside of the tank, incredible customer service, features no other company has, yes you can say i have a controller, but does your pump really do all that the ecotech does ? no. does your pump have a battery back up purchasable ? no. does your pump have the ability for wireless communication ? no

yes you can go without all the bells and whistles and have stuff live, but living doesnt mean thriving

Thriving means exactly what it is. Thriving.

The misinformation from people annoys the crap out of me... the Tunze and Jebao both have the ability to use battery backups... and much cheaper ones too. The Ecotech battery backup is a 12v 18ah sealed lead acid battery and a relay switch inside. A $50 Tunze Safety connector relay (also overpriced, unless you want to make your own), a trickle charger, and a $35 battery make the battery backup that you say "only" Ecotech has to purchase. Its sitting right outside my tank now nicely enclosed, ready to kick over once the power goes out.

So yes, there are other pumps that do everything the Vortechs do except sit outside the tank with a smaller in tank footprint, for much cheaper. Please show me otherwise, because no one has yet. I just keep hearing lots of rehashed, disproven nonsense like "heat in the tank", and "more features", because some people can't admit to themselves that a much cheaper pump can do the same things, and it hurts their pride. Its a pump people.
 
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NYreefNoob

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the thriving comment wasnt towards you, was to the op

bhazard, they dont do everything that a vortech does, and there is no mis-information. yes you can diy to make something like it, or alter something to be like it, but nothing is out the box like vortech.
you keep telling us to show you, you show me a pump that has all the features out the box, no mods no add on's that is the same or equal. and if i wanted a big azz pump in my tank i would have stuck with tunze's years ago, and im a cheap person, but learnt my lesson years ago in this hobby, as someone who has tried a ton of equiptment, tested and beta for companies.

see what your missing is, yes you can make something to work semi simular, hence make or diy, but no straight out buy something that is the same without altering, and then once altered in anyway you voided any warranty.

yes your chinese lights work and grow corals, but ive seen enough of those fixtures rust out, either body or internals and fail, also know of atleast two people that the hanging clips rusted out and light fell into the tank. does your chinese light have 6 indipendent colors that are all indiviually dimmable ?

im not taking away from some of the cheaper stuff, but remember it doesnt have the long term usuage that some of the name brand stuff has and known for quality

i can go and find alot of the stuff besides some of the top companies equiptment on a certain chinese site, i can show you 3 skimmers with 3 different names that are the exact same skimmer. can show you a sendra pump with 3 different labels.

please dont try to make it as it is a equal to some of the equiptment, cause it works doesnt mean it works the same, cause i will happily show you it doesnt

not trying to come off as a know it all, but ive been in the hobby long enough to know better from first hand experiance, not word of mouth

now i will point out two companies that i think are over priced, deltec is way over priced and BK as well, but look hard enough and you will start to see alot of companies are the same company, BK = vertex as one example
 
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bhazard451

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bhazard, they dont do everything that a vortech does, and there is no mis-information. yes you can diy to make something like it, or alter something to be like it, but nothing is out the box like vortech.
you keep telling us to show you, you show me a pump that has all the features out the box, no mods no add on's that is the same or equal. and if i wanted a big azz pump in my tank i would have stuck with tunze's years ago, and im a cheap person, but learnt my lesson years ago in this hobby, as someone who has tried a ton of equiptment, tested and beta for companies.

see what your missing is, yes you can make something to work semi simular, hence make or diy, but no straight out buy something that is the same without altering, and then once altered in anyway you voided any warranty.

yes your chinese lights work and grow corals, but ive seen enough of those fixtures rust out, either body or internals and fail, also know of atleast two people that the hanging clips rusted out and light fell into the tank. does your chinese light have 6 indipendent colors that are all indiviually dimmable ?

im not taking away from some of the cheaper stuff, but remember it doesnt have the long term usuage that some of the name brand stuff has and known for quality

i can go and find alot of the stuff besides some of the top companies equiptment on a certain chinese site, i can show you 3 skimmers with 3 different names that are the exact same skimmer. can show you a sendra pump with 3 different labels.

please dont try to make it as it is a equal to some of the equiptment, cause it works doesnt mean it works the same, cause i will happily show you it doesnt

not trying to come off as a know it all, but ive been in the hobby long enough to know better from first hand experiance, not word of mouth

now i will point out two companies that i think are over priced, deltec is way over priced and BK as well, but look hard enough and you will start to see alot of companies are the same company, BK = vertex as one example

Everything I use and talk about is all from first hand experience. Which brand chinese light rusted? That's good info to share that people will want to know about.

Does your 6 channel dimmable light (with a semi optimal blend of leds) have a GUI on the fixture that doesn't require a usb connection and a laptop by the tank to make changes to it? See I owned the Radion Pro too to compare against my "cheap chinese" fixture, to see if they really were that much better. I felt ripped off and sold the Radion Pro, especially after I took a PAR measurement, and they measured the same. Did you also do this?

I've also ripped apart the internals down to the pcb boards on my lights, checked all connections and drivers, and have spent countless hours optimizing the led layouts. Its running 7 months strong, no issues. Did you also do that, or did you see issues somewhere, in some forum, with some unlabeled chinese box bought from ebay over 2+ years ago before "full spectrum" was even a term? I'm also covered by warranty for 2 years from a US company even if they do go belly up somehow.

There are so many variables between companies. To label them all the same way is misleading. My 2 lights perform BETTER than 3 Radion Pros, at 1/3rd the price. My 2 WP40s perform BETTER than my old MP40s, for 1/7th the price. All confirmed in my own tank. VERY few people have done the same to see for themselves.

This is my "cheap, chinese junk pump, rusted out lighting" tank. You would think the way people talk about non premium priced products that I'm shooting pure rust into my tank.

The only things not doing well are my brain/lobo. My Copperband decided he finds them tasty now.







Radion Pro / Reefbreeders/Evergrow for reference. Not the greatest pic, but does it really look like its worth twice the price at 1/3rd the size to you? You can see the Apogee probe from the PAR testing.

 
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NYreefNoob

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like i said, im not saying they dont work, but it doesnt DO EVERYTHING that mp40w does, nor a radion.i dont have a radion myself, i have a custom nano-box led and it is manual dimmers, but my fixture didnt cost what that radion cost either,
and unless a out of the country company has a us repair place i couldnt be months without my equipt, well i could cause i have spare back up equipt. and you can argue till your blue in the face, but it isnt apple to apple.
 

KathyC

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The topic of this thread is your opinion of the most overpriced gadgets in the reef hobby.

Let's keep it on topic and not turn it into a debate thread.

Thanks
 

bhazard451

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This is the only frag I have a good comparison of:

7 months ago.


Today:


.. and yes, I thank god for Maximum Reef. Mini colonies for frag prices.

Its all about the research. LEDs in general are a huge offender of being overpriced. It is not turnkey like MH and T5, and requires A LOT of effort to get right. Very few commercial fixtures use leds that mimic MH/T5 output, and it is unfortunate. Customers shouldn't be beta testers for such an expensive item.
 

vio

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People are very different. Some are proud when they spend money on their tanks, and some are proud when they save money on their tanks.
Aro Dynasty has been offered $80,000 for the platinum arowana. A UK importer even offered the fish for £200,000 (nearly US $400,000). Unfortunately, the fish is not for sale. While we can?t entertain any hopes of ever owning it, those who attended Aquarama 2007 can still say that they have seen the world?s most expensive aquarium fish.
 

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