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cybermeez

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Hudson Yards
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H guys,

I haven't been around for a while (grad school, work etc. keeps me busy) but I figured this one really was worth posting. I've had a reef tank for 10 years and this problem is a first for me.

For the past couple months I've been dealing with steadily declining pH (measured with a properly calibrated Apex controller) in a tank that's been up and running less than 2 years. Alk, Ca and Mg were all within normal limits. Water movement is more than adequate with the return and 2 Vortech 40w pumps. I tried water changes, 2 part dosing, buffers etc. and nothing helped. The pH was down to 7.7 and things were getting serious.

After all this trial and error and loss of half my SPS, I'd eliminated all causes except excess indoor atmospheric CO2. Excess CO2 combines with water molecules in the tank to form carbonic acid (CO2 + H2O=H2CO3). Accumulation of this acid relentlessly drives down down pH.

So, I ponied up and bought an indoor air quality monitor to measure CO2. Normal outside air averages around 450 ppm CO2. In my apartment with the windows closed I measured 1200 ppm - higher than the EPA considers healthy for people. With the windows open I still can't get it below 650 ppm.

In the short term I've been dosing with kalkwasser (calcium hydroxide) which combines with the excess carbonic acid to form one calcium carbonate molecule and two water molecules: Ca(OH)2 + H2CO3 = CaCO3 + 2 H2O.

I could do this long term, but it means a couple hundred bucks worth of new equipment to do it safely (i.e. kalk reactor).

Instead I'm going to try building a CO2 scrubber and hooking it up to my protein skimmer air intake. BRS sells a ready made kit and media which is essentially an RO canister containing a media cartridge filled with soda lime.

I'll be setting it up this week and will share with you my results. If it doesn't address the problem substantially enough I can always supplement with a kalk reactor.
 

Geraud

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Manhattan
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I am using a DIY Co2 scrubber with soda lime and it works very well. Really easy to make yourself by the way. I just use a clear bottle of water that I have pierced at the bottom, with soda lime from a vet-products company.

Easy to know when to change the medium as it becomes purple when used up.
 
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I live in an apartment and have the same problem...pH is chronically low (almost never above 8.0) It's not my probes...it's air. I've read the same Randy Holmes Farley articles as you. In fact I have them printed sitting on my table at home and keep studying them. It all makes sense.

Hate using kalk in my ATO because of the unpredictable-ness of evaporation. Alk swings are bad...and that's exactly what happens with unpredictable evaporation and kalkwasser.

What's interesting is that I didn't have a problem with low pH in my old tank - a 50g. But I do in my new tank - 120g.

I'll be interested to hear your experiences with the CO2 scrubber especially how much work it is to set up, and if it actually functions...
 

Geraud

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Manhattan
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jedimaster, when I started using my CO2 scrubber my pH went from 7.7 -> 8.2 to 8.2 -> 8.5+

I actually have set my Apex to stop the main light (MH) if the pH is going above 8.46 to avoid any problems lately.

For the past couple of days since I was able to open the windows all day long, i was getting 8.25 at night with the CO2 scrubber. Without it, it was 8.1 last night. (at its lower point).

So to summarize: if your skimmer has an "airline tubing" intake, it is really easy to set up. And cheap too.
 

V.Shaq

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Brooklyn
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Makes sense I had similar issue in my FOWLR with PH. I usually keep the windows in my living room open now and added a fan under the cabinet. I do get low PH at times but I use a Sulfur Denitrator at times so that may be my issue when its low. Any way interested to see your results.....
 

Djbetterly

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Nutley, NJ
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I built a CO2 scrubber this evening out of 2in PVC. I'm trying something a bit different, I'm running a small air pump into the scrubber with no other air intake holes. I've had the same pH problems for some time as well. Its very frustrating.
 

vio

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Manhattan
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i run my Protein Skimmer (ATB) outside air, i got 8.15 to 8.25 , MTC Calcium Reactor + Vortex Libra Dosing pump, i think sometime, location is dif. i will buy the Extech CO100 CO2 Monitor soon.
 
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I'm upgrading skimmers soon...possibly in the next week or so, to a model that pulls 3x the air that my current, one does (it came over from my 50g). I'm hoping the added air injection into the water might help.

That being said, I'm going to be looking at these CO2 scrubbers, especially the DIY ones. I have a BRS reactor sitting around doing nothing...if anyone has tips on how to plumb it into the air intake of a skimmer...I'll be looking.

I blame all the traffic rolling around NYC belching products of combustion into the air too.

pH is currently 7.89.
 

Geraud

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Manhattan
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As long as there is an "even way" for the air to flow through the media you should be fine. A media reactor with a bottom plate with holes should work fine.

I am using the "Jorgensen laboratories" kind of soda lime (from vet stores), and I really like it because the media is coarse (aka no risks of smaller particles plugging some holes) and it changes color from white to purple when it gets used up, and it is still dirt cheap (7$/3lbs)
 
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Geraud

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Manhattan
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MikeC, this is actually a question I had asked long ago in the DIY section :)

I did get a three-way multi-purpose solenoid (it is important to get one like that otherwise the flow needs to be "directed" and that cannot be used in our case) on eBay.

I could not plug everything yet because the connections are tiny and I am trying to figure out how to best do that. However the idea is the following:

- Connect the skimmer input line directly to the "common" of the solenoid
- Connect the CO2 scrubber to the "OFF" line, with a valve in between the scrubber and the solenoid
- Connect the open ended to the "ON" line, with a valve at its end.

Is is important to have two different valves for each case as you will need to pull slightly more air when going through the CO2 scrubber.
 

Geraud

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Manhattan
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Yes, a program like that: (with OFF meaning CO2 scrubber in use since it would be the case "most of the time")

Fallback OFF
If pH < 8.21 then OFF
If pH > 8.39 then ON

Also for those who are interested and since the programming is not obvious, this is what I use for my metal halide: it gets shut down at 8.46 and restarts only if the pH is going under 8.42. And of course it depends on the hour. The only thing I would love being to do is making sure that it does not run for only 10 minutes (aka no starts after 8:20pm)

Fallback OFF
If pH < 08.42 Then ON
If pH > 08.45 Then OFF
If Temp > 82.5 Then OFF
If Time 20:30 to 09:59 Then OFF
Min Time 020:00 Then OFF
 

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