Unlevel 180g

[Imbarrie]

Bad advice.
You are assuming the trim is installed correctly and level which there is no way to determine.

 

[Imbarrie]

This is really bad advice.
There is little to no accountability on the installation of the trim.

 

[Imbarrie]

There is nothing holding these joints together other than screws.
I would not trust this as a relatively little amount of side load would knock the whole thing over.
You need to lap joint and through bolt the middle supports to provide lateral support and tendon and through bolt the corners to provide complete support. This looks like a huge puddle on the floor waiting to happen.

 

[Jaftica]

using pressure treated wood is very risky, as it dries out it tends to warp, also using 4x4 isnt a real good choice, i would not use that stand! as barrie said, huge puddle on the floor waiting to happen.

 

[FlyTekk]

"You need to lap joint and through bolt the middle supports to provide lateral support and tendon and through bolt the corners to provide complete support."

I dont know what any of this means. Please explain.

 

[Imbarrie]

RC has a simple drawing that would help illustrate where the differences in this stand and your stand lie.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1169964

The ends of your stand are simply butted against the other piece where the RC picture shows overlapping sections. When The parallel grains of these overlapping pieces are glued using a high strength waterproof glue and then through bolted using bolts this stand has a much higher degree of lateral stability. Add a layer of laminated ply and this is bulletproof.

If this does not make sense then I would stop what you are doing and go no further. You are talking about creating a confined and open structure that needs to support over half a ton of fluid weight within a small foot print. This is not difficult but it takes some level of engineering principles and woodcraft.

Second that pressure treated has no place in tank stands. It will crack and splinter and there is no reason for it. A good quality stud or even fir is more than adequate. The use of 4x4 is useless as you are bracing for a force that is not needed under a fishtank. You can use 2x6 on the horizontal pieces for much more support. Or use a 2x4 laminated with 3/4 ply for more rigidity.

I attached a pic showing the overkill I did when constructing the joints for my 150 tall. This stand is overbuilt yet still open underneath. Every vertical piece is shouldering a horizontal piece and laminated to the piece next to it. The whole thing is skinned with 1/2 ply.
You need piece of mind with these stands.

 

[FlyTekk]

Thanks for the help imbarrie. I was using the following tool....

http://www.fishandtips.com/index.php

Followed that thing to the T. Also guy at homedepot told me to use pressure treated. I trieed to research on the spot but there is never signal in home depot. This tank will be in garage so i feared 6" of ocean water getting into garage like it did last year during sandy and damaging legs of a stand thats holding a ton. So i thought it was good idea like home depot guy said.

Now that i research even the l brackets are going to get eaten up by the chemicals in the wood. I also painted it with latex paint and with research i see i had to wait 90 days to paint?!?!? WTF!

It currently has 8" wood screws that are approved to withstand the chemicals in this wood. Those are going through the center bars. 16 of them.

Is there anything i can do it keep this stand? What if i drilled 3/4" plywood sheet to the back so it cant sway side to side? This tank wont be able to be bumped from the sides anyway. But just incase....

I actually really enjoyed building this with a friend and beer. This sucks! Makes me want to quit.... watch for a fire sale thread!

 

[Jaftica]

The pressure treated wood as it dries will warp, could crack your tank, I would not put a tank on that, jmo

 

[Imbarrie]

If this was regular 4x4 material I would say you could cut out some of the wood in the corners to reinforce the joints with additional pieces. But this pressure treated wood will not age well since the moist content is high. As some of the chemicals in the wood dry further it will not stay consistent. This is how wood warps.
The pressure and forces inside a 4x4 could easily create high and low spots over a 6 foot piece that will weaken the integrity of the tank over time. You want this stand to be as flat as possible and this will work against that.

Home Depot is a good place for fishtank advice.

 

[Arati]

I am also not convinced of this stands lateral strength.

I also agree pressure treated wood warps quite a bit.

I think you should stay with the metal stand. buy a decent level use it to level the tank in all directions. you can used metal plated 4x4 under the stand legs and then use your cool shimms to lift it into place.

• Place a marble on the middle of the tank. The ball will stay in place if the pool table is level.
• Adjust the table if the ball rolls off of the glass towards a particular area of the table.
• Repeat the process on every side of the table. Place the glass and marble 2 to 3 inches (5 to 7.6 cm) from every pocket on the pool table/ or over the tank legs but away from silicone

 

[FlyTekk]

So even if i 1/2" plywood the back sides and bottom the wood would still warp? I would screw each piece into plywood multiple times. That should fix lateral strength issue. This thing is ridiculously heavy and strong i cant believe its not going to work.

 

[lnevo]

Its strong now...but listen to what everyone is saying...pressure treated is the wrong wood. Too moist will shrink warp and crack...doesn't matter how much plywood you use. Screws aren't enough either. Needs to be glued and screwed. And just resting the top beams on top of the posts is not structurally sound either. Sorry man. You said you had a good afternoon with your buddy, chalk it up as a fun time / learning experience.

 

[FlyTekk]

Whats crazy is how many people make their deck and buildings out of this same wood. Patios, boardwalks... etc.

 

[samksy]

I build the exact same stand 5 years ago using the same wood and bracket you use for my 180g tank. Used the stand for 2 years, then sold the whole setup....it's 180g just like yours. It worked fine. I didn't see any problem. But these are suppose to be outdoor wood, since yours is garge should be fine. Would i do it again, probably no. Good luck!

 

[edd]

for pressure treated wood they use white pine cause it takes to chemicals good. its the cheapest wood you can buy until they treat it. it does shrink and warp a lot as it dries.
you didn't skin it yet, so it won't cost much to make it out of 2x4.

 

[Imbarrie]

Whats crazy is how many people make their deck and buildings out of this same wood. Patios, boardwalks... etc.

Correct because all these items are outside and they are exposed to wet conditions. The idea being the moisture content of this wood is irrelevant if it is conditioned with a blend of poison that will prevent rot and decay. Normal wood will rot in this environment quickly because of the moisture creating perfect conditions for rot. This wood addresses this by pressurized soaking in poison. They do not even recommend cutting this indoors without precautions. In this context it is a great wood. Outdoors.

For a fishtank stand you are looking for wood with completely different characteristics.

Hey it is your tank, do what you want. This thread is full of advice that you are not obligated to take.

 

[FlyTekk]

You seem annoyed. I apologize. I'm just trying to absorb as much info as possible. U obviously know MRE than I do. From the sound of it I need to spray my stand with a hose once a week to simulate rain to keep it from warping. Lol.

Trust me I believe what ur saying so much so I'm already prepping for fire sale. This hobby is doom or gloom. I Dont know how ya do it but I can't research every square inch of the universe for a fish only.

 

[tosiek]

So much anger in this thread. omg. Why did you change the metal stand to a wooden one? I didn't see the reason in the thread.

Yes, you want to change the material if possible and build it differently to account for lateral stresses.

Barry has a good post on the way the stand can be built to account for the lateral stress but realize there is always more than one way to skin a cat and it can be done differently. Simple triangles in the corners of your stand can also work coupled with skinning the stand properly and anchoring the skin to the vertical and horizontal beams you have set up will also work. Really, for the weight you can get away easily with just skinning your current stand and screwing it properly into the 4 x 4 supports along with some glue, but the glue doesn't like to hold on the pressure treated stuff well.

Either way, you should get someone that understands all this stuff better to help you set up the stand. Going through a thread like this with everyone's 2c put in isn't helping the issue at all and aggravating everyone in the process.

 

[tosiek]

Correct because all these items are outside and they are exposed to wet conditions. The idea being the moisture content of this wood is irrelevant if it is conditioned with a blend of poison that will prevent rot and decay. Normal wood will rot in this environment quickly because of the moisture creating perfect conditions for rot. This wood addresses this by pressurized soaking in poison. They do not even recommend cutting this indoors without precautions. In this context it is a great wood. Outdoors.

For a fishtank stand you are looking for wood with completely different characteristics.

The issue they are trying to fix is that other waterproofing methods are topical and temporary due to natural weathering. This gives a longer lasting waterproof on the wood even though its not a "forever" waterproof, still needs to be sealed yearly for longevity, and gives a bigger buffer between sealing times. This isn't a set and forget type of waterproofing for your deck. This isn't about rotting because in 3 years of damp conditions your pressure treated stuff will start to rot as well. It just won't rot as quickly as something with an applied waterproofing sealant that was applied once and never done again. Your supposed to waterproof/weatherproof any decking material every 6-10 months according to any of the waterproofing/weatherproofing sealers on the market currently.

They do not even recommend cutting this indoors without precautions.

Ipe, teak and a few of the other high oil woods used for decking also come with some warnings about cutting indoors and requirements on using dust masks when cutting because its also almost as bad for you as the chemicals used in the pressure treated stuff. Granted cancer isn't as high on the list as other issues like the pressure treated stuff has but its still on that list and doesn't mean its any less poisonous. Just sharing some fun info we ran into when using the product.

 

[FlyTekk]

Thanks Tosiek. I like your damage control approach. Id like to move forward form here instead of start again. I dont mind adding triangles to each and every 90 degree bend. I was assuming thats why the instructions have the L brackets on every bend. So should i remove the L brackets and replace with Wood triangles?

And i will also add 3/4" plywood skin on back and sides. If i did this would i be good? It doesnt have to be "bulletproof" just needs to hold the tank safely.