Sand or bare bottom fuge?

[SteveZ15]

Sand or bare bottom fuge..
Was thinking about removing the sand from my fuge I have been trying to keep my phos low with water changes and gfo but still hover at .08-.06 I would like it around .02-.00.. I have a small tank probably over stocked feed pellets once a day.Feed corals once a week with choped up rods food with water from the tank and do waterchange a hour later. I have a big pice of lr holding the chaeto so it dont get caught in the weir leading to return chamber.. I am trying to get this system as best as I can.I just dont want to make a big mistake by removing the sand,I do 7-10 gals water change every week with rodi and rc salt on a 40gal tank 57 total volume..I have a feeling the sand could be part of the issue..I want sand in the dt so I dont want to remove it,I do siphon it weekly. I dont really have a bad algae issue some here and there in low flow corner or under frag rack.I noticed a slow decrease in coraline and the tank sucks up alk like crazy.My goal is to have a nice clean good water tank where my sps are bright not just ok..So and help will be usefull. Thanks.

 

[h2o]

Go bare bottom its easy to maintain what ever stuff settle on the bottom u suck it out when u do water change and u done spotless dump with sand it will always be a mess my 2 cent

 

[MikeC]

Go bare bottom its easy to maintain what ever stuff settle on the bottom u suck it out when u do water change and u done spotless dump with sand it will always be a mess my 2 cent

+1 ....... O and read my signature :smash:

 

[NYCEnglish]

No sand = no wrasses. Deal breaker. I also personally think it looks more natural.

 

[MikeC]

No sand = no wrasses. Deal breaker. I also personally think it looks more natural.

Not true I have a Coris Wrass and he is very healthy and happy.....he told me so
Besides I don't think he wants a wrass in his sump?

 

[NYCEnglish]

Damn - I missed the whole fuge part!

Def no sand for me!

 

[FastUno]

No sand in sump or tank for me. Much easier to clean & maintain.

I had nightmares when I used sand & then the gates opened up when I went BB.

 

[vio]

Not only sump , NO, NO , NO sand ever. Unless u got 1 fish and 3 corals on 100 gal. tank

 

[reefer4eva]

I know a lot of people are going to have negative comments on what I say,but I always used miracle mud in every refugium I ever owed.with the added trace elements it provides all my corals have nice polyp extension and the colors are super vibrant.also the macro algae grow like crazy!and yes I heard all the negative comments about it (snake oil,it doesn't work,it makes your tank worse,parameters out of wack)and it solely depends on the setup you have for it to be beneficial. to each there own,I always use the stuff.where people go wrong with this stuff is that they never replenish it

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Not only sump , NO, NO , NO sand ever. Unless u got 1 fish and 3 corals on 100 gal. tank

Ok terrific. Whateva

There are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY too many worldwide known reef tanks by hobbyists, all that have sandbeds (david saxby, julian sprung and many others) to even make a statement like that. Just because some people have issues supposedly because of a sandbed doesn't mean bare bottom is the best or only way to go.

Certain wrasses need a sandbed, certain clean up crew members need a sandbed(no you dont have to have those cuc members but they're nice to have). Too many people try to do things certain ways that contradict having a sandbed like vacuuming it. You can ridicule me for my next statement I don't care but-

If you have a sandbed you should leave it undisturbed. The different bacterias (aerobic and anaerobic) form in these different layers. If you want to vacuum your sandbed you better do it from day one but you'll never get it all because of the live rock. The sand bed should be left undisturbed and let to do its thing. A refugium with no sand isn't really a refugium in my eyes. A fuge is supposed to have a deep sand bed.

 

[JuanSalgado]

Sand-bed Is Best In A Refugium.

 

[MjG2000]

Ok terrific. Whateva

There are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY too many worldwide known reef tanks by hobbyists, all that have sandbeds (david saxby, julian sprung and many others) to even make a statement like that. Just because some people have issues supposedly because of a sandbed doesn't mean bare bottom is the best or only way to go.

Certain wrasses need a sandbed, certain clean up crew members need a sandbed(no you dont have to have those cuc members but they're nice to have). Too many people try to do things certain ways that contradict having a sandbed like vacuuming it. You can ridicule me for my next statement I don't care but-

If you have a sandbed you should leave it undisturbed. The different bacterias (aerobic and anaerobic) form in these different layers. If you want to vacuum your sandbed you better do it from day one but you'll never get it all because of the live rock. The sand bed should be left undisturbed and let to do its thing. A refugium with no sand isn't really a refugium in my eyes. A fuge is supposed to have a deep sand bed.

I agree with this a fuge with no sand isn't a fuge, it's just a sump.

 

[Nychris351]

sand bed

 

[SteveZ15]

I get the part where the sand bed is beneficial,I am just not sure if it is the source of a slight phos problem,there has to be detritus in there..I am just worried that between the sand in the fuge and in the dt which has only 2 inches and the live rock I am worried they are leaching phos..Also the fact my tank sucks up alk like its happy hour.I been doing water changes every few days so once its in the .o1 range I will change reactor media and see how much it builds up in a week. If the phos creeps up I would think the sand has to be part of the problem..I dont over feed and I vac the dt samd and blow off the rocks once a week and faithfully.The only thing that makes me leary of removing the sand is removing the nitrification bacteria or am I leaving a dirt trap phos maker in my fuge..I just dont want to make a big mistake is all. Please dont knock the people who advise against sand.Have you seen their tanks?IN the tanks threads they are spotless and corals are glowing they are so colorful. I just like to hear everyones opinions because they are all different and most of you guys have been reefing a lot longer than me.So these comments help me learn.So thanks for commenting in this thread.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Your killing off your bacteria by vacuuming the sand. Or if you want to put it this way your keeping the level of bacteria from climbing by disturbing the sand bed and not letting the anaerobic bacterias clonize. Ive had a few tanks and never has phosphates because of my sand bed. I'd be looking else where.

You don't have man made rocks or Marco rocks do you? There's been a boatload of people that had Marco rocks and had high phosphates.

 

[vio]

Ok terrific. Whateva

There are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY too many worldwide known reef tanks by hobbyists, all that have sandbeds (david saxby, julian sprung and many others) to even make a statement like that. Just because some people have issues supposedly because of a sandbed doesn't mean bare bottom is the best or only way to go.

Certain wrasses need a sandbed, certain clean up crew members need a sandbed(no you dont have to have those cuc members but they're nice to have). Too many people try to do things certain ways that contradict having a sandbed like vacuuming it. You can ridicule me for my next statement I don't care but-

If you have a sandbed you should leave it undisturbed. The different bacterias (aerobic and anaerobic) form in these different layers. If you want to vacuum your sandbed you better do it from day one but you'll never get it all because of the live rock. The sand bed should be left undisturbed and let to do its thing. A refugium with no sand isn't really a refugium in my eyes. A fuge is supposed to have a deep sand bed.

Ha.haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Steve he got 40 gal. tank , i just vote , that my opinion, rest keep for u.

 

[SteveZ15]

I never siphoned or even touched the sand in the fuge since i put the sand in.I only siphon the display tank sand to remove fish waste All my rodi stages were changed fresh mix has 0 phos.When I feed pellets they eat them before any even start to sink.The only thing I can think of is when I first started using rowa I didnt change it for a while I had no reagents for the hanna,when I finally got some the phos was 1.5 i had no gha but had other purple kind of stuff it looked cool the glass really never gets dirty so I didnt think there was that much.I also noticed at one point some frags I mounted on the live rocks grew more up but never really encrusted a base..I was reading when some rock leaches the coral wont encrust on it like it should.So thats what lead me to believe it was coming from the sand and lr. Has anyone who removed sand from a fuge or main tank noticed they didnt have to dose as much?I would rather not get all mixed up with dosing now since I got it on track.i just wanna make sure thats the source.I can deal with more frequent small water changes to keep the water clean for a while before I would decide remove the fuge sand. I think if I start with the water params right,I wold better know of removing the sand has a negative affect.Oh the rocks were manado rock and some reef rock most of the stores call it I think.If that is the problem I guess I have to swap the rocks out one by one. I have like 4 nice size chunks.

 

[SteveZ15]

Thanks I think the rock might be the problem,Theres something that is wierd I have some few different spots of algae a patch of dragons breath which is really nice some other kind of purple stuff which looks nice,and some grassy greenish kind it looks like a grass patch of licorice or something,but these algae only grows from the manado rock I was thinking those rocks were the problem,but the fuge one is fairly clean.The only thing I get on the reef rock is bubble algae .

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Ha.haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Steve he got 40 gal. tank , i just vote , that my opinion, rest keep for u.

Laugh all you want. Most will laugh at you supporting a bare bottom REFUGIUM. Like MG said as well- a fuge with no sand bed is not a fuge, its a sump. I was just saying that there are way too many awesome, mature tanks around with sand beds for everyone to start going bare bottom because they believe it is the only way to have a neat, squared away tank.

Steve good luck man. I hope you fix your issue and the tank comes back strong and trouble free after that.

 

[duke62]

Depends on what kind of corals you want to have and how diligent you are with water changes.. I have had sand beds since i started in my fuge and in my DT. Have to say 4 weeks in and im very happy i went bare bottom. Dont know if its the bare bottom or change in salt but my acros and LPS never looked so great. I want to see something in writing from a world recognized marine biologist that say refugiums must have sand bed or its a sump. What is a fuge a place to grow macro algae and critters and maybe a place where bacteria can grow. Well my macro algae grows like a weed, have every critter known to this hobby in there and my rocks give a nice place for bacteria to colonize. Its so clean,not going to ever worry about a sudden PO4 release and my wrasses and clean up crew dont seem to mind at all. So far i cant see myself ever returning to a sand bed in either tank