Experience with Liveaquaria?

[mk4fan]

I can easily get the same fish for 1/2 the price locally and witness them feeding and visually inspect.

Thats why i never bought from them also. But unfortunately for me i'm not having much luck locally. Ich is easy to spot, but not marine velvet or flukes......

I am going to try buying from liveaquaria only, no more lfs......

Its not about the money honestly, just feel terrible losing all the fish. I really wish there was an easy way to cure them.

I wonder what the survival rate is of all the fish that are taking out of the ocean.....

 

[ourcoralreef]

Not true...LiveAquaria/Quality Marine do not QT their fish...

those same fish are also wholesaled to and available at many LFSs...

I have also used LA for many years but there have been DOAs, sick fish and deaths during and after guarantee period...

Depending on what you consider a quarantine period divers den is quarantined for a minimum of two weeks which according to me that's not considered a Long enough quarantine period (4weeks minimum 6-8 weeks in a closed system with no fish added for that time)

If you're buying a finicky finish that does not eat well then yes I would also recommend you buying it from divers den if you want to specific colors or sizes then I would also recommend you buying from divers den other than that i've always been happy with my purchases from the regular site

All of their fish go through a resting period for a couple of days then they starve the fish for 2 to 3 days so it doesn't poop in the bag then it goes through a visual inspection and then shipped so yes that is a quarantine if you consider 2 weeks a quarantine then about a week and then a visual inspection should be the same

Most LFS do not buy from Quality Marine and get their shipments from California and even if they did the fish is going from the wholesaler into the LFS tank where parasites or bacteria can be introduced not to mention the added stress and no guaranty

Over the years in my experience I never got a sick fish i have had a fish die Within the 14 days and after the 14 days that could have been my fault the divers fault or a really stressed out fish im not denying divers den is nicer to buy but personally i would not be able to justify the extra money on a regular fish

 

[marrone]

It's not just a quarantine period, it's the treatment that they put the fish through. You need to realized that they're not quarantine the fish but treating the fish. The fish being shipped to a wholesaler or if a store has the the fish shipped direct isn't the same as what LA is doing with their DD fish, not even close.

Just like LFS Quality Marine has parasites and all kinds of diseases in their systems, and considering the volume of fish that they're getting in, and they get a lot of fish that aren't doing well, there is a better chance of them having a lot more diseases than a LFS. Now they do have better things in place then most LFS, and have people who can take care of parasites and other problems too, but there is a higher chance of a fish coming from them having something than buying a fish from LA DD.

 

[rich]

What do you guys think of an lfs like manhattan aquarium that regularly treats their fish tanks with copper

 

[marrone]

I think you'll find that most LFS treat their fish only tank with copper or some other type of medication. Most also keep the SG low to help with some parasites too and some also do fresh water dips before they place the fish into their systems and some also use Ozone. With the volume of fish they need to do something. Usually the levels of copper, and even SG for that matter, aren't enough to kill off things like Ich, Marine Velvet, or even flukes, but they do have some effect on some parasites.

 

[ourcoralreef]

It's not just a quarantine period, it's the treatment that they put the fish through. You need to realized that they're not quarantine the fish but treating the fish. The fish being shipped to a wholesaler or if a store has the the fish shipped direct isn't the same as what LA is doing with their DD fish, not even close.

Just like LFS Quality Marine has parasites and all kinds of diseases in their systems, and considering the volume of fish that they're getting in, and they get a lot of fish that aren't doing well, there is a better chance of them having a lot more diseases than a LFS. Now they do have better things in place then most LFS, and have people who can take care of parasites and other problems too, but there is a higher chance of a fish coming from them having something than buying a fish from LA DD.

No One is denying that divers den is better then buying straight off the regular website
in some cases but i wouldn't go for it in most cases because the fish on the site come nice and healthy to me

On the second matter I do not agree most LFS are full of parasites and bacteria problems they only cover their problems with lower temperatures playing with the salinity and using chemicals to make the fish appear like it's healthy

Quality Marine is considered a higher quality fish supplier
Fish suppliers and local fish stores all have fish coming in and going out regularly the difference is the water volume and Fish suppliers can justify the costs of chemists and laboratories to protect their investments local fish stores are just random people that opened a fish store

As I said before In my experience over the years I never got a fish that had parasites or bacteria infections from the regular site

 

[ourcoralreef]

By the way just a note I called Live Aquaria to ask them about the California facility and the person on the phone told me it is Live Aquaria's facility and they're not associated with Quality Marine and they told me they quarantine all the fish for 7 to 10 business days before their shipped out

 

[marrone]

No One is denying that divers den is better then buying straight off the regular website in some cases but i wouldn't go for it in most cases because the fish on the site come nice and healthy to me

Not some but most to all cases it's better to buy off of the DD than their web site, and you may have gotten nothing but nice and healthy fish from their web site but other haven't, and the reason have been given already for that.

On the second matter I do not agree most LFS are full of parasites and bacteria problems they only cover their problems with lower temperatures playing with the salinity and using chemicals to make the fish appear like it's healthy

I think you'll find that most stores go through problems of parasites or bacteria infections from time to time, as all it takes is one batch of fish, or one fish for that matter, to infect their whole systems. Because of this most places do take some sort of protection to combat this, which is everything from copper to lower SG to fresh water dips. It's very common and is part of the business.

Quality Marine is considered a higher quality fish supplier Fish suppliers and local fish stores all have fish coming in and going out regularly the difference is the water volume and Fish suppliers can justify the costs of chemists and laboratories to protect their investments local fish stores are just random people that opened a fish store

Quality Marine is a high quality fish supplier, as are a number of other ones, but they, just like other wholesalers, all have the same problem of handling a large amount of fish that are coming into their systems, some of which will never make it out because of parasites, diseases, bacteria infections, stress, or a combination of all of these things. Regardless of how much resources they have they do send out fish that have diseases or parasites.

As I said before In my experience over the years I never got a fish that had parasites or bacteria infections from the regular site

You haven't but other have. As for the DD fish, well you can't compare how they're being handle to the way the fish are being handled through their regular web site. There is a big difference and for some it's well worth paying the price for the quality and protection, some thing that isn't guarantee from fish that you buy on their web site.

 

[piranhapat]

I think you'll find that most LFS treat their fish only tank with copper or some other type of medication. Most also keep the SG low to help with some parasites too and some also do fresh water dips before they place the fish into their systems and some also use Ozone. With the volume of fish they need to do something. Usually the levels of copper, and even SG for that matter, aren't enough to kill off things like Ich, Marine Velvet, or even flukes, but they do have some effect on some parasites.

Disagree, that low SG will do nothing to kill or slow up parasites. Unless the SG is near 1.09. Most LFS keep at 1.13-1.16. Not enough to do anything for parasites. The main two reason because they try to match salinity where there get they fish. So LFS can acclimate better. Other reason cost.

 

[Reef Trends]

Having worked with one of the largest importers, owned a LFS and toured many wholesalers including Quality Marine perhaps I can address a few points raised:

Imported fish are collected then sold to holding stations which then evaluate and prep the fish for shipment. For the most part they are put on direct cargo flights into NY, Miami or LA. One thing to remember is that usually the weather where they are packed is opposite that here.

The vast majority of fish offered for sale at LFS's here are direct imports.

LFS's use various methods to try to prevent disease but not cure it. These methods include lower salinity, UV, copper, prazi etc. However with the amount of fish going in and out as well as systems often plumbed together this is a difficult task.

Many fish come in at lower salinity then typically kept in a reef tank. So stores keep lower salinity to help in acclimation, it does help inhibit illness (but certainly not treat) and is more cost effective - so please CHECK and ACCLIMATE properly when you take your purchase home.

Live Aquaria does purchase marine fish from Quality Marine however since the purchase by Petco may use other suppliers too (I know they do for freshwater obviously). Divers Den is quarantined and treated in house and is top notch.

Quality Marine is vastly superior to any other wholesaler I have ever seen or heard of. Many wholesalers are not much better then your LFS just on a larger scale. In fact I prefer purchasing fish that are closer to being directly imported as they have been through less systems and less chance of cross contamination. Where QM stands above the others is their system of collecting and cataloging all shipments. If there is ever a problem they can back track exactly when and where that fish was collected right down to the boat. Now when the fish come in they acclimate to temp, salinity and ph on the spot (have a cool water mixing station). The systems the fish go in are likewise segregated by origin and the fish (for the most part) are held individually with bar code IDs. Even though sections of these smaller tanks are plumbed together they do not flow into one another. Instead water is passed through each and then filtered. When I say filtered their systems are impressive to say the least. Everything is computer controlled and monitored closely. All I can say is QM is a well oiled machine so while the cost is much higher so the processes in place are equally elevated.

 

[DEL]

i took a chance and placed an order from DD last night!! ill let you know how it goes!!

 

[mk4fan]

Having worked with one of the largest importers, owned a LFS and toured many wholesalers including Quality Marine perhaps I can address a few points raised:

Thanks for your reply! Good info provided.

 

[piranhapat]

I don't know of any literature that shows lower salinity kills or slow the cycle of parasite. Unless it's at levels 1.09. This is why when you see a fish at LFS. But you don't see a parasite on the fish so you buy him. Once the fish is placed in normal salinity. All of sudden a few days later your fish has an outbreak. I wonder why? Maybe because the parasites was in domain at LFS at this lower salinity. This is where people blame LFS or its they fault for not QT fish. It's very important to QT everything not just not fish....

 

[marrone]

Which parasites are you talking about? There are a lot of different ones that lower SG has an affect, while some, like Ich, need the SG to be at or below 1.009 for it to work, though any Ich inside the fish aren't going to be affected by the low SG until they come off the fish. Then you have things like flukes where the low SG doesn't have any affect at all, as only fresh water will kill them, and then even fresh water doesn't kill eggs.

Unless the place is using a really good QT method, and then treating fish when they're sick, you should never take a chance with putting one directly into your main tank, even if you can treat the tank if something does break out. This goes for LR, LS, micro algae, and corals. All these things should be QT or scrubbed if possible before going into your main tank. LA DD methods are really good, though even then I would QT the fish just incase.

 

[piranhapat]

Name me the parasite that you are talking about that low salinity works. Show me the proof that salinity at 1.16 will work on the parasite that you say. Like I said salinity has to be at least 1.09. You say theirs a lot. Can you name them.

 

[DEL]

i hope this snow doesnt mess with my fish delivery!!

 

[marrone]

You keep mention a SG of 1.009 but that is when people are keep the SG at when they're doing hypo to try and kill Ich, which they need to do over an extend period to kill the Ich. But it's doesn't have an impact on a lot of other parasites, some of which it takes long fresh water baths to kill them, and in some case multiple fresh water baths and even then their eggs will survive. Then again low SG for some diseases and parasite doesn't work at all and medication needs to be used. So if you're combating Ich, than 1.009 over an extend period of time is good, but there are a lot of other parasite that it has no effect.

There are worms, microbes, bacteria, and other crustacean type parasite that don't do well with lower SG, which can weaken them and slow them down from taking over the tank and killing the fish, though the low SG doesn't usually kill them which is why LFS also use copper, UV, Ozone, and other medication in their tanks.

 

[marrone]

i hope this snow doesnt mess with my fish delivery!!

Usually if the weather is bad UPS lets them know and they will hold your package. At this point your package should be in the air, did you get a tracking number? If it's being shipped now you may want to have them hold it at a UPS store and pick it up yourself.

 

[piranhapat]

Which parasites are you talking about? There are a lot of different ones that lower SG has an affect,

Name me the parasites that you are talking about? I mention 1.09 salinity because that is the only proven salinity that will kill ick a parasite. I don't know where you get this information that low salinity kills a lot of other parasite. Show me the proof or the write up of this claim. Keeping a fish for a long period at low salinity will only stress the fish in time. Possible causing a high death rate at LFS. If the LFS keeps that fish for a long time.

 

[piranhapat]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/

Discussion of treatment and effects of low salinity ...

One of the alleged benefits of this treatment is the resulting conservation of energy for the affected fish. Reef fish have to constantly drink saltwater and excrete the salt to maintain the proper osmotic balance. Lowering the salinity of the surrounding environment eases this energy demand on the sick fish, thereby allowing them to expend more energy towards fighting the infection (Kollman, 1998 and Bartelme, 2001). On the contrary, keeping fish in low salinity means that they don't "flush" their kidneys sufficiently. After long-term exposure, this can cause kidney failure and kill the fish (Shimek, pers. comm..)