it's completely true...care to prove me and the laws of physics wrong?
another reason not use Rio Pumps
- Thread starter Awibrandy
- Start date
it's completely true...care to prove me and the laws of physics wrong?
Psycho graphic
Trouble Maker!
- Location
- Somewhere on the East Coast
Psycho the cooling through evaporation is a common denominator in this case...Assuming you use two identical buckets of water to test two different pumps using the same wattage, the surface area will be the same for both...
so you will reach the same steady state temperature in both buckets...
surgace agitation increases the surface area of the water a bit, thus increasing evaporation. So yes technically the bucket w/ more agitaion will cool a bit faster...However in a case like this in buckets the difference is almost negligable...probably less than a degree...of course in cases w/ larger surface area like tanks, increasing the surface area via agitation can increase the evaporation rate exponentially...
good point, but i don't think you will see much of a difference in temp with such a small surface area to begin with...
Lets remove the cooling effect of evaporation as it is not related to how much heat any one particular pump puts out.
Don't take this personally, because I never just trust anybody, but if you want me trust that you know "your stuff", where did you learn your stuff? This way I can give your information the appropriate weight.
Don't take this personally, because I never just trust anybody, but if you want me trust that you know "your stuff", where did you learn your stuff? This way I can give your information the appropriate weight.
B.S. in Bioprocess Engineering from North Carolina State University...
some related courses i have had are
Thermodynamics
Physics I and II
Statics
Dynamics
Fluid Dynamics
Transport Phenomena
plus 5 years experience as a real world engineer in the Pharma/Biotech industry.
Chief gets it!
all of the kinetic energy becomes heat via friction
Thanks.. that's alot more satisfactory then "trust me"
Question: If you use the pump to pump water up four feet to a display tank, my understanding is that the water gains "potential energy", if the theoretical 50 watt pump, is adding 50 watts of heat to the water, therby balancing both sides of the equation, where does the "potential energy" come from.
My initial thought is gravity, but hasn't some of the original 50 watts been used to overcome gravity and if it has, how can the 50 watts of power be directly tranfered to 50 watts of heat and overcoming gravity?
well i don't really want to brag about credentials or anything like that...
Potential energy comes from gravity (mass*gravity*height)
the gravitational force decreases the amount of work the pump can produce, the rest of the energy becomes heat right away. However the kinetic energy that is produced by the pump and makes it up to the display eventually becomes heat via friction.
for example if you increase the head on a pump to the point of where it cannot push any water. The pump is esentially a heater (until if breaks).
But to go into the reason the pump fails involves electrical engineering stuff (not my forte) where the pump draws more current and hopefully trips a breaker in your house before something catches on fire. Most pumps i work on at work have safety switches wired in that cuts power before the current rises high enough to damage the pump.
Potential energy comes from gravity (mass*gravity*height)
the gravitational force decreases the amount of work the pump can produce, the rest of the energy becomes heat right away. However the kinetic energy that is produced by the pump and makes it up to the display eventually becomes heat via friction.
for example if you increase the head on a pump to the point of where it cannot push any water. The pump is esentially a heater (until if breaks).
But to go into the reason the pump fails involves electrical engineering stuff (not my forte) where the pump draws more current and hopefully trips a breaker in your house before something catches on fire. Most pumps i work on at work have safety switches wired in that cuts power before the current rises high enough to damage the pump.
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I have degrees in elecrtrical engineering and aerospce enginnering.. I think this is the first time I need to flung my degrees while helping people in this hobby :lol2:.
So you think a 50W heater and a 50W Rio pump can efficiently produce the same amount of heat in a 5 gallon bucket of water? why do we put heaters in the tank when we can add water flow and heat from a power head
. Here is a hint: Friction energy plays a big part in Rio's heat source, and friction heat produced via water going thru a polymar hose and two piece of plastic rubbing together is very different. Water act as sorce of lurbrican and cooling media in both cases.
- Location
- Flushing, NY
I dont have a degree related in this stuff, but I'll agree with cali:teeth:
:bigeyes::question:
LMAO!!Chief you are to much...:funnypost
When I started this thread I was only adding my little 2cents to the rio thrashing. Never expected all of this.:teeth:
:backtotop In any case could you guys look at the pictures below and tell me if this a rio problem? Did I get this pump out of my system just in time? Last night the pump was making a racket I shook it a little and it stopped. I thought the water didn't look clear but I didn't feel like messing with it so I left it.
This morning I see what appears to be a film to one side of the container with a few smaller darker bubbly spots in it.
Did it finally explode?
Thanks to cali_reef, and louismustdie I took the rio out what I think was in the nick of time..:goldfish2
Attachments
I have degrees in elecrtrical engineering and aerospce enginnering.. I think this is the first time I need to flung my degrees while helping people in this hobby :lol2:.
So you think a 50W heater and a 50W Rio pump can efficiently produce the same amount of heat in a 5 gallon bucket of water? why do we put heaters in the tank when we can add water flow and heat from a power head
but it all becomes heat eventually im not talking about heating efficiency, im talking about both achieving the same steady state temp...the water acts as cooling media eh? so where does the heat go? could it be...in the water?
your explanation doesn't say anything about what eventually happens to all energy going in...whether it be a pump or a heater.
heres a hint..all of the energy becomes heat via friction....it's not magically disappearing...
I'll put it another way maybe it will help you see it....
Even if it was possible to make a pump that is 100% efficient and converted the entire 50 watts into kinetic energy...The friction in the water movement will turn that kinetic energy into heat..Thus all of the energy going in eventually becomes heat....hence the law of conservation of energy.
The reason we use heaters is because they are efficient at heating and turn on and off to quickly bring the water up to the desired temp....But again i am not talking about heating efficiency i am talking about steady state.
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You obviously don't understand the relationship between material friction and heat generation.
Two pumps consuming same amount of watts does not heat the water equally due to the kinetic energy and friction heat produced. Your generalization is not correct.
People without a fancy degree but with experience in the hobby have no problem understanding it.
you obviously don't know #EDIT# about what you are talking about...you have yet to make any points that prove me wrong...
I do alot of temperature mapping on huge batch mixers w/ submersible mixing pumps...This has nothing to do w/ hobby experience...
It's easy to say someone is wrong, but you are way off base here and obviously have no knowledge on the subject...
Still waiting for you to prove me and the laws of physics wrong...get three buckets two pumps and a heater all using the same wattage and put your money where your mouth is genius.
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