Hard to Keep License

[Anonymous]

Minh,
I hope you don't stop reding after you call me names

. Please read my post carefully before you go putting words in my mouth. I never once suggested that a certificate should be presented anywhere, nor did I even imply it. If you read the words in my posts you would see that it iswe who would write the test, we that wuld come up with the questions, and we would ask the administrators to help us. I think you would agree that an educated buyer is a better buyer. All that is suggested is that we try to do it for ourselves. There is bound to come a day that the government sticks its' nose where it doesn't belong, doesn't it always?

By the way, how's the fihing on south Padre these days? I haven't been there in 22 years.

2poor2reef,
With a name like that you want to raise prices

? What is going to keep the millionaire know nothing from buying the coral that I can't afford but can take care of? What freedom would you lose in having a license? Can you not drive because you have to get a license? Never once did I say that people aren't being open minded. I am quite open to suggestion. That is where this post came from. It is someone else that had the idea, I changed it a bit so that we can us eit to our own benefit. Again, I ask that you read my posts, not what you think they say but use the words themselves. I am not suggesting anything but a way for us to test our knowledge, as I have said a couple of times before.

tyoberg,
I think you know what I am going to say

.

[ June 21, 2001: Message edited by: SteveNichols ]

 

[2poor2reef]

Steve,
That's a low blow making light of my financial condition

. I don't think there is any risk from millionaires wiping out the reefs. There aren't enough of them. I'm sorry if I misrepresented your thinking in reference to being open minded. I took that from the fact that you didn't acknowledge any other solutions other than licensing/regulation. Yes, I drive. I guess I could get a license for every activity I participate in every day. Gee, just the thought makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm just a freedom loving capitalist I guess. Think I'll move to New Hampshire where I can drive a car with a license plate that has the state motto "Live Free or Die". You either believe in individual rights or you believe that those who think they know better should rule over those who they think don't. I don't keep anything that would be on the restricted list, except maybe a squamosa clam. But if I decide I wanted to I sure as heck don't want to have to ask for YOUR permission.

I think you are kidding yourself in a very fundamental way. We are ALL shortening the potential lives of virtually every animal we keep. A very respected "expert" on another board recebtly stated in a post that a certain snail commonly used in our hobby may have a natural life expectancy of close to 100 years. The average span of this snail in captivity is probably no longer than a year or two. Except for the relative lack of predators in our systems, they are still very, very far from ideal. Even the experts are not very close to consistently replicating a natural habitat.

And we don't all agree on ethics either. One poster that seems to share your point of view on this and the other famous thread posted to an unrelated thread a while ago saying that he supported the idea of using black mollies to cycle a tank. I personally wouldn't do that. And yet he is on the side that you seem to think is the ethical/conservationist. I think that's funny.

Anyway. I have enjoyed the discussion. It was very enlightening.

 

[Minh Nguyen]

Steve, the reefers who this test is for are the ones who do not know, the newbies or the oldies who never bother to learn. The WE you proposed does not contain them. To the one who have to take the test, the WE you proposed are just "those hypocritical self-serving elitists who wanted to reserve the right to keep these beautiful fish corals to themselves". Don't you see? That is the problem and that is why it will not work. The test is doesn't apply to anyone who is involved in developed it because we all know enough to pass it with flying color.
Just think of it like this, you went to the store found a toy that in your opinion perfect for you. It does not cost too much and you like it very much. You wanted to buy it but was told that you are too dumb(I don't know a better word to tell some one that they don't know enough to do some thing) to have it. Would that make your blood boil? Which storeowner in his right mind would tell a customer that he is too dumb to buy something? The customer is always right if your lively hood is depending on it. If all the storeowners were angels, we would not have this problem in the first place. They just refuse to stock item that is inappropriate for their customers.
I don’t know how to explain this any different. I can see in my mind these customers storm out of LFS cussing and yelling. They will also find out who is responsible for this license idea and that is the end of any influence that WE have on them. I also see all these LFS continue to sell anything that a customer wanted thinking exactly as they think now. They are thinking: “Hope it died in 2 weeks and the sucker will come out and get another one”
I am not calling you names. I think your idea is so simple minded and is doomed to failure.
South Padre is great. The fishing is as good as ever. The water here is so fertile. You can easily catch the bag limit in trout or Red Drum if you take a bout out into the bay. You got to come down to South Padre if you have not been here in 22 years. Let me know and you can stay at my house. I live right on the water.

 

[Anonymous]

cj,
That is exactly why i started this thread. Something that many people apparently aren't aware of is the fact that if we don't govern our hobby the government will. It can be seen in almost any aspect of life you look at. I wore seat belts so no law was needed for me. My children had child seats so no law was needed for me. Look around at the laws, you will see that they are for the people that don't use their brains. As I was once told, locks are there to keep people that might try something from trying it. The idiot that is going to commit a crime is probably going to do it anyway. It makes more sense to me for us to do the job rather than someone else. But then there are those that don't seem to understand that.

 

[jamesw]

So Charles,

When can I expect to see that completed editorial of yours. The darned thing is at like 90% complete ferchrissakes...

Cheers
James

 

[Anonymous]

2poor,
That's our financial condition

. The reference to the millionaire was to show that us poor

individuals can easily be "priced out" of the market while the rich uninformed go on killing animals through a complete lack of knowledge. The thought of licensing doesn't exactly thrill me either. I disagree with your premise that
"You either believe in individual rights or you believe that those who think they know better should rule over those who they think don't." If I believed that I would move to Cuba

. Since several close friends and my father were killed fighting for the same freedom you love, I think you greatly misstate my thoughts for the "ruling" of people. Since I am nobody, you don't need my permission, and your welcome for it

.

As far as kidding myself, you greatly underestimate me. I am well aware of the fact that our grandchildren should be able to take care of our corals when they are our age. Don't think that because I think things are coming and am searching for a remedy, that I am kidding myself. you won't hear me argue that what we have are small reef ecosystems. I am not touting ethics or conservation, although it may seem so. I am concerned for the hobby I enjoy. I see bans being talked about in other countries and some of the solutions that are talked about. I see bills being written that are so vague they can easily be turned by someone to take away my hobby. In regards to starting a tank. I did use damsels to cycle my first salt tank about 8-9 years ago. I sure do wish they had died during the cycle though

. I don't do it now, The tank I just got through cycling was with live rock and dead sand. As soon as the nitrites were gone and a water change to lower nitrates kits from IPSF and IA went in. Well, enough about me, how are you doing

?

 

[Minh Nguyen]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Minh Nguyen:
<STRONG>

This is my last post (number 2) on this subject

</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forget about this

 

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