How Would You Set Up a Fish Only Tank?

[bezzer]

I'm very interested in setting up a Fish Only tank in the near future so that I may keep several different types of fish. I definitely want a Picasso Trigger in there and maybe a dog fish or puffer of some sort, ya know one of those really odd looking fish that's so ugly it's cute.

Anyhow, I know the trigger can get big (8-10 inches) so I'll need a larger tank then my current 65, what size would you suggest for about 5-7 fish? The trigger would most likely be the largest inhabitant.
What type of filtration?
Would it be better using a sump or could I use a hang on filter? I'm considering putting this in a Living Room so the noise level from the tank would have to be as low as possible.
I was considering using some coral skeletons and maybe some store bought "artifical" corals to decorate the inside of the tank, would either of these pose a problem?
Does anybody know of any websites that specialize or showcase some FO tanks?
I appreciate all suggestions.

Brian

[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: bezzer ]

 

[bigtank]

In my opinion, a FOWLR tank should be set up with the same equipment as a reef, with the exception of intense lighting and all that.

Otherwise you will have lots of fun stuff like high nitrates and fish deaths. A properly set up FOWLR will still cost quite a bit less than a similarly sized reef, because there are no corals and fewer expensive items.

I would go with a 180 if not larger to house a bunch of big messy fish. I would use live rock, it's attractive and helps with the filtration.

I would use a sump with an oversized skimmer. A Euroreef CS8-4 or comparable because these fish are big waste producers. The Euroreef is also a pretty quiet skimmer from what I understand.

I would not use a DSB in the main tank but rather put one in part of the sump, maybe some caulerpa also.

Lighting is up to you. Some people use MH on these tanks just for the brightness and shimmer. I think some cheap daylight NO tubes would be fine.

I see nothing wrong with fake corals or coral skeletons.

HTH and have fun.

 

[bezzer]

Thanks for the suggestions bigtank.

I like the idea of not having a DSB in the main tank. I'm currently having an issue with one of the fish in my 65 gallon reef constantly disturbing the sand bed which gets all over the LR and I wouldn't want that in the FO tank either.
What substrate would you use inside the main tank then?
Would it be better to use CC or even a larger/heavier substrate like crushed shells.
I saw a FO tank with what looked like black CC, that would be kinda cool.

[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: bezzer ]

 

[Anonymous]

You do not want a substrate composed of large particles in a tank like this, it will just trap detritus and effect your water quality. You could use a sponge filter hidden behind a coral skeleton, along with a powerhead for aeration. It's not high-tech, but it works.
I just turned a year old fish only tank into a reef a week ago. All I did was add MH lighting, instant reef. My setup was exactly the same otherwise. For a tank that size, the best thing you can do for your water quality is water changes, especially with a messy eater like a trigger. Your biggest concern will be exportation of nitrates, this means water changes, especially without a DSB.
By the way, that particular species of trigger is EXTREMELY slow growing in captivity. You will never see it get to 8" unless you buy a specimen already close to that size. For this reason, they are one of the best triggers for the home aquarium, along with the fact that they are somewhat calm compared to some other species.
Hope this helps.
Jim

 

[M.E.Milz]

I agree with the above suggestion to set up a FO tank just like you would a reef tank. I would even go so far as to suggest that you should use a DSB. Of

I have a similar set up in my office. It is a 175 that is home to triggers, morays, puffers, tangs and a big annularis angle. The tank was set up in February and includes a 4"-6" DSB (combination of South Down and ESV oolitic sand) and a lot of live rock. An eggcrate shelf was placed about 3.5" off of the bottom to keep the fish from digging up the lower levels of the DSB. So far, the DSB appears to be developing nicely (large bubble formation and plently of worm trails), although I plan to seed it with another batch of worms within the next week or so. My hope is that the DSB will take care of the nitrates. So far, nitates have remained minimal in spite of heavy feedings.

Of course, if you have room to set up a separate refugium, this would definitely be a good alternative. Perhaps even preferable.

I do use a trickle filter, but the amount of bio-material is minimal - only enough to catch the bubbles from my skimmer (an ESV 750). In any event, I plan to replace the last of bio-material with additional live rock in the near future.

 

[naesco]

I would recommend you use live sand and live rock. The fish you mentioned will not disturb the sand.
Outside filtration is maintenance and is not necessary.
Go slow in adding the fish. No more than one per month AFTER the tank is established (3 months); and easy on the feeding.
Get the largest tank you can afford.
Good Luck

 

[howie099]

I have heard triggers destroy LR after time. Triggers are meassy eaters so good filtering is a must. Use any good form of mechanical filterations method. I would use a sump and fill it with LR. Place whatever you want in the tank. I would just add some crushed coral or sand just enough to cover the bottom. No inverts in the tank or they will be meals for the puffers.

Good skimmer, whatever light you want to use I would just use NOs if the tank in under 4ft lenth. If you are over just go with 2 VHO's since thye come in 6ft lenths, or some PCs.

In the end you need just Biological, Mechanical, and a little Chemical filteration and time to keep marine animals. Depending on how good your filteration is will be how often you do water changes.

 

[bezzer]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I never realized the Picasso Trigger was a slow grower and reasonably "well behaved", thanks for the info Jim. I just love the looks of the Picasso trigger.
As howie099 mentioned, I thought triggers not only would go after invertabrates but also crush/destroy LR in search for food so I'm a little leary about spending alot of money on LR.
Would it be okay to go with a DSB in tank but also have a wet/dry or another type of filter?
Thanks again.

 

[bigtank]

Why would you want a wet/dry if you have a DSB and skimmer? All a wet/dry or trickle filter does is pump out nitrates. It will only make things tougher for you.

 

[M.E.Milz]

My triggers tend to pick at the rock, but definitely don't "eat it". Most of my rock has a good coating of coraline algae. I have a niger and a fuscus in one tank, and a picasso in a different tank. The tank with the picasso even has some soft corals (yellow polyps, brown/green button polyps, and green star polyps) that are doing just fine.

 

[davelin315]

I have to disagree with Naesco about your choice of fish not disturbing the sand bed. Triggers will blow at the sand and try and stir up food. Also, they will blow inverts over to get at their undersides (such as urchins). As far as the picasso trigger, it is supposed to be a more docile trigger, but each one will be different as far as temperament. I HAD a california bat ray until a stupid picasso trigger bit it and it jumped out and died a day later due to being out of the water for a long time. The picasso is about 3 inches long and it attacked a bat ray with over a 1' wingspan. I will disagree slightly with another post as well, as I have seen many friends with picassos that started out the size of a dime that got to be 5"+ in no time at all. They are very mean when they get bigger as well, and can easily chomp down on your finger at larger sizes. Also, triggers, all of them, have been known to crack tanks when they are bigger by biting the glass. They also are known to break anything in the tank such as heaters by biting them. Not that I'm advocating not getting a trigger, I've had many and they are a great fish to have, but just realize what they can do, and know how to house them successfully. My personal favorites are the niger, the blue line, and the queen, although the queen is REALLY REALLY MEAN and gets REALLY REALLY BIG! I had one years ago that I had from dime size and grew it to 5" or so, then I gave it to a friend, who grew it to 10"+ in his 55. He finally sold it to a pet store because he was afraid it was going to bite him when he fed it. IMO, a trigger that big could not only chomp on your finger, but could also take your finger off. Think of a trigger like this, if you were to compare a trigger to a pirhana, which I would bet you wouldn't swim with, I'd rather swim with the pirhana than a mean trigger as the trigger IMO would be more likely to attack you when hungry.

 

[bezzer]

Bigtank, to answer your question:
since I might not want to get LR for the tank I wasn't sure if DSB alone would be enough to filter a tank of that size with said inhabitants.

I have more research to do about the fish I'm considering so this project will not be started till after Christmas sometime.
I was interested in hearing what hardware others would use in setting up such a FO tank.

Regards,

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: bezzer ]

 

[M.E.Milz]

davelin315 is correct about the triggers blowing into the sand. Mine do it all of the time. They also like to drag rocks around the tank. My fuscus has a game where he will lift a 4" piece of live rock to the top of the tank, and then drop it. I leave 3 or 4 pieces of live rock sitting out in the open to serve as "toys".

In any event, I still believe you can have a DSB with triggers any other preditory fish. What I did was bury an eggcrate shelf an 1" or so below the top of the sandbed. This way, the triggers and other fish will not be able to disrupt the sand below the shelf.

 

[Anonymous]

Excelent topic - thanks for the advice everyone.
I want to set up a FOWLR in my basement. I'm going with the idea bigtank summarized above "a FOWLR tank should be set up with the same equipment as a reef, with the exception of intense lighting and all that". I've got lots of room for a large sump so I was planning on putting the DSB there. Question - how much of a DSB is needed in the sump? I know 5-7 inches in the main tank. How much in the sump? Assuming the sand has the same "life" in it, what determines the effectiveness of the DSB? The cubic feet of sand? The square footage? For example, will a 1'X1'X1' = (1cf - 1sf of surface area) work as well as or better than a 2'X1'X.5' = (1cf but 2sf of surface area)?

 

[Josh's Reef]

I'm afraid I will have to dissagree with most of you.
A trickle filter will not take care of your nitrates. As it matures it developes bacteria that first handle amonia, then bacteria that handles nitrIte and converts it to nitrAtes. The nitrates then must be exported from the tank via chemical and mechanical filtration. Water changes also help to reduce nitrate buildup. If the trickle filter took care of the nitrates ,why change water? Nitrate is the final product.THE CRAP OF THE TANK. Live Deep sand beds can convert the nitrate from this point into a gas. Thats those little bubbles you see forming under the sand. The critters and worms are there only to keep the bed from becoming stagnent. The live rock performs this function to a point but not as well as the DSB. The main function of the rock is for bacteria growth as you would have on your bio balls. YOU CANNOT HAVE LIVE ROCK EXIST FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME WITH WET DRY FILTRATION. THE ROCK CANNOT COMPETE.
And no, I would not have a DSB with a heavy bio load. A light one, yes. Your better off with great mechanical fitration. e.g. A large protien skimmer+ large wet dry+a canister filter running with carbon and a micron cartrige.
Don't forget live rock creates waste as well as creates dead zones in the tank. The bigger the tank the better of corse.

P.s. I just converted my 250 reef into a fish only. I got rid of all but 30 lb of live rock , took the sand down to a dusting, and added a lot of fish.
psuedo dilectus
red sea lunar 8"
anularis angel
2 purple tangs
2 yello "
1 naso "
1 blue head wrasse
4 damsles
2 foot zebra moray
and I'm not done. Good luck

 

[Anonymous]

Your not gaining any benefits after 6" or so, so maximize the surface area. If you have room for a big sump, then get a big sump and get as large a DSB as you can with a depth of at least 5 or 6". The tank must also produce enough nutrients to feed the sand bed in question. Example, you can't put a 6'x6' sand bed on a 20 gallon tank, it will die due to lack of food.
Jim

 

[Ryan22]

I have a Dogfaced puffer that hunts in the sand bed the same way as the triggers discribed above. It is such a cool fish, tons of personality, it begs for food every time I go near the tank. It was eating Seaweed Selects out of my hand within an hour of me putting it in the tank. I'm glad to see poeple are responding to this post, I've had trouble finding info about FO tanks. If you find any good resourses please post them.

Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Jim. That would have been my guess. I've heard much discussion about the minimum depth for a DSB but none about the maximum.

Ryan,
I too like the responses to the FO questions. I've looked for places for FO info, IMO this is the best place.

 

[JeremyR]

I'm in the extremely early planning stages of a large FO myself.. I already have male & female passer angels, a cortez angel, and a juv vlamingi or lopez tang (we'll see as it grows) that I want to put in a tank together. The current plan is an acrylic 10'x4'x2' tank, some sortof decent lighting (nothing extreme), probably 3-400 pounds of rock going down the middle with some trenches through it, a large 8" diameter becket driven skimmer, and a dsb. Doesn't get much easier than that.. FO's should be setup just like reefs.. only real difference is the lighting and possibly more skimming if you have a bunch of big pigs like I do.

 

[Josh's Reef]

jeremy
thats sounds really cool. But I would still stay away from a heavy fish load. in that size tank we are talking alot of fish.
Put it this way. If it were a reef, how many fish could you have?
About a third of what you could have in a fish only with wet dry and mechanical.

I just think that if you want a FO tank then why not get a lot of fish.