I lost 3 fish today

[bigtank]

I have a 70g reef tank. It has been set up for 10 months and NH3, NO2, NO3 are 0. The pH is 8.2 and the alkalinity 8 dKH. It has the following stuff:

Remora Pro w/ Mag 3 pump
4 MJ powerheads, 2 of them are on timers
Ebo 250w heater
2x150w aquastarlight HQI system
eheim hang on filter- empty
80# LR, DSB
mostly LPS with a clam and a BTA

The new heater and powerheads came yesterday. I installed the heater and 3 PHs last night. The temp was about 70. I set the heater at the lowest point that it would fire up, 83 degrees on the dial. At 6:00 this morning, I got up only to see my coral beauty and flame hawk dead on the sand. The temp was 75 degrees at this point. My royal gramma was and is nowhere to be found. Only my maroon clown and green chromis lived.

I removed the dead fish and turned down the heater. The temp is still around 75. The clown is acting a little funny, seems to be breathing faster and won't wallow in the anemone now.

I find it hard to believe that the temp rise of 5 degrees in 7 hours killed them since the clown and small chromis lived. My tank has had temp swings before and nothing happened. I really miss those fish, especially the flame hawk.

Don't flame me, I'm not ignorant and had no idea the temp would go up that much (I had it just high enough to make it start).

Do you think the temp rise alone killed these fish? If not, any ideas of what may have? They were very healthy, plump, nobody attacked them, etc.

What about my clown???

Can somebody help me out?

 

[esmithiii]

Doesn't sound like the temp swing did it. I tried putting 2x400W MH on my 55 and the temp shot up from 79 to 88 in about 4 hours and all my fish made it.

E

 

[davelin315]

It's very possible that it did. The colder water is, the more dissolved oxygen it can contain. As your tank went up in temperature those 5 degrees or more, your amount of oxygen would have been depleted. Fish that were used to cold water also had their metabolisms speed up (this part is only conjecture) and as it went up, their oxygen needs went up, so as demand went up, supply went down. My guess is that is what killed them. Also, don't forget that heaters are just inexpensive pieces of electronics. My guess is that your heater actually kicked your tank temperature up to around 76 or 77, and that it when it turned off, it allowed your tank to drop back down to 75 before turning on again. Also, I'm surprised your fish were doing well to begin with as 70 is kind of cold for them. I know that temperatures on the reef vary, but I would think that would be too low.

Sorry most of this is guessing (except for the O2 levels decreasing with temp), hope you can get your tank to recover and save the rest of the fishies!

 

[bigtank]

Update: The royal gramma came out of the rocks, seems to be just fine!

I sure hope the clown recovers and acts normal again. Thanks for the info.

 

[faztaz]

Also you may want to check the powerheads for stray voltage. I don't think the heaters could do it because the increase is temp is gradual a heater wont suddenly heat the water within minutes ... it takes hours. Also are you sure the powerheads aren't too strong. If there is too much water circulation the fish can be stressed and that can lead to their demise.
_________________
Honda Activa

 

[Tremelle]

I am curious to know how you got your tank down to 70 degrees here in Tx. at this time of year? Are you using a chiller?

 

[Rick O]

If you live in TX and you tank is at 70 in the summer I think you need a new thermometer.

 

[SPC]

I would have to agree with the above, how do you know your temp was at 70 to begin with?
Steve

 

[Mike02]

yeah your thermometer is wrong.

 

[bigtank]

My thermometer is not wrong. The tank is open-topped and a gallon evaporates daily. The Tronic heater gradually went out a couple weeks ago. The animals did fine in 70 degree water.

Everything looks good today and the clown is back to his mooching self

He's getting pretty big.

 

[clamfoot]

What's the room temp. where the tank is kept?
Even with evaporation and cooling fans it's difficult to get tanks much lower than 2 degs. below room temp. and that's really pushing it. Try another thermometer and see what you get.

 

[davelin315]

Geez, leave the guy alone. If he says his temp is 70, it's 70. It sounds weird, but none of us are in his house with National Oceanographic Institute temperature equipment, so let him be! Unless, you've been spying on him and breaking into his house, in which case, never mind.

 

[SPC]

Yea, bigtanks got it all figured out now.

Steve

 

[Rick O]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davelin315:
<STRONG>Geez, leave the guy alone. If he says his temp is 70, it's 70. It sounds weird, but none of us are in his house with National Oceanographic Institute temperature equipment, so let him be! Unless, you've been spying on him and breaking into his house, in which case, never mind.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We're just trying to help him with his problem. It seems kinda odd that his tank temp would be 70 when practically everyone else in the country (without a chiller) is battling high temps. I just checked weather.com for College Station TX and found that the daily high temps are around 90 degrees. If his tank is in fact 70 degrees without a chiller then many of us (myself included) would like to know how he does it.

Please share, Bigtank.

Rick

 

[davelin315]

Everyone on this board is trying to help, myself included, but lashing out and saying that he's wrong, his temp is not 70 is not helping, it's calling him a liar. The only thing I know about bigtank is that his name is derived from his opinion that he's got a big tank. If you noticed above, there were several posts that started out as "check your thermometer, maybe it's broken" that gradually turned into "you can't possibly have your tank at 70, you're lying". Obviously, I'm paraphrasing and doing some interpreting here, but the tone of the post seems pretty hostile. SPC started out as helpful, and then became insulting in his post saying that
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

Yea, bigtanks got it all figured out now.

I know that sometimes when I post it gets kind of obnoxious sounding, all I was saying here was to lay off and not call somebody a liar for saying his tank is at 70. It sounds weird, but then everyone is going off and trying to discredit him and say he's wrong, you for example are researching his local weather! Maybe his house is set to 68 degrees, maybe he has a massive chiller on his tank, maybe he lives in an igloo, it doesn't matter, the bottom line is that calling somebody a liar is a good way to alienate them, and without saying it directly, that's what's been going on here.

Don't forget, he asked for help
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

Can somebody help me out?

Not to be called a liar.

 

[JennM]

Respectfully....honest....

Is it *possible* that the thermometer has malfunctioned?

I'm not making accusations just examining the facts as they were presented...

Fact: Bigtank's thermometer told him the temp in the tank was 70.

Fact: Bigtank's new heater would only fire up when it was set to 83.

This tells *me* that either one or the other instrument was faulty. Given that the heater was new, I'd honestly suspect the thermometer.

IME a temp swing either way of more than 5 degrees CAN (but doesn't always) stress a fish to death.

Still, given that I suspect the thermometer is faulty (or the heater!) then we can't determine for certain whether temperature was to blame or not.

Have you tested your water parameters? Other than adding this new hardware, what else has changed? Is it possible you introduced something to the tank when you were working in it? Soap, lotion, bug spray? I don't ask this question to be rude or condescending, but in my experience (worked the last year at LFS), even the most experienced hobbyist can sometimes overlook something and make an honest mistake. I am simply trying to help you learn why your centropyges died.

Jenn

 

[Mike02]

The water temp at santa monica, CA is 70 degrees. Are there any coral reefs off the CA coast? i never heard of any. I think you have to go further south into Mexico for that. Ive seen coral reefs about 900 miles south of San Diego when i vacationed there a couple of yrs ago. i would guess that the water temp was around 78 (January). 70 degrees doest seem to be a temperature that is viable for reef livestock.

 

[Rick O]

No one has called him a liar. But maybe he's relying on a piece of equipment that has failed. Considering that he's lost three fish in a short period of time and that it occured around the time he added a heater and 3 ph's I don't think it would be a waste of time to confirm that his thermometer is correct. Also several people have inquired as to how he got his temp to 70 degrees in the first place. Not that we don't believe him but I for one would like to lower my temps by a few degrees and if he has a secret for doing it without adding a chiller then I'm curious as to what it is. My setup is similar to his, I also live in a hot climate and my temps are about 83 degrees in the daytime.

Rick

 

[bigtank]

I do not have a chiller and the room temperature is 78 degrees. It is very hot outside this time of year, 100 is more the norm. My tank is open-topped with an HQI system. It's in my bedroom with a ceiling fan going 24/7 and A/C of course. Before my old heater went out, the temp was 77 or so most of the time. Then it was 70 at night and 73-74 with the lights on. I should have explained that part. The thermometer is the mercury type, not one of those with the stick-em on the outside of the glass. I've had it since the tank was set up and trust it just fine.

If I had an enclosed hood setup like most people do, my temp would be 80+ without a heater running.

The royal gramma survived, as stated earlier, and the clown and chromis are back to normal. I think the coral beauty and flame hawk were simply more sensitive to the temperature swing and resulting lowered O2 levels. The temp is now 75 degrees. Everything looks awesome again.

No soap or lotion has ever gone into the system.

An open top can make a huge difference for temperature IMO.

 

[EEreefer]

One of your temperature measurements is out of whack. If the tank says 70 and the heater says "I won't come on till 83", then somethings amiss. As cheap as floating thermometers are I would spend the money to double check. If the temperature is truly 75 now then I would trash the heater. Also, my aquarium top is basically open with fans blowing across, evaporating gallons a day, but the temp in the tank rarely, if ever, goes below room temp by more than a degree. If you want help, listen, don't take offense when someone questions a statement hard to fathom. JME.