AS promised - update on Powder Blue return to LFS
- Thread starter C J Rodders
- Start date
Guys,
Don't you think it time to move away from regionalism and nationalism -- with all of the bloodshed they cause -- and become internationalists?
But, back to Powerblues. I find myself in disagreement with most here about the difficulty keeping this surgeonfish. If you follow some basic rules it is as hardy as any other fish we keep in reef tanks:
1. You MUST only purchase a PB that is young, free of parasites, and eating spirulina flakes with vigor. Later, you must fed it a diet that is heavy in vegetable matter -- Spirulina and Nori.
2. Give it a reasonably large tank, 4-feet if a two inch juvenile, and 6-feet if a larger specimen.
3. Recognize that it is very aggressive toward any other fish ounce established, and especially toward surgeonfish with the same body shape -- the Achilles for example.
Terry
Don't you think it time to move away from regionalism and nationalism -- with all of the bloodshed they cause -- and become internationalists?
But, back to Powerblues. I find myself in disagreement with most here about the difficulty keeping this surgeonfish. If you follow some basic rules it is as hardy as any other fish we keep in reef tanks:
1. You MUST only purchase a PB that is young, free of parasites, and eating spirulina flakes with vigor. Later, you must fed it a diet that is heavy in vegetable matter -- Spirulina and Nori.
2. Give it a reasonably large tank, 4-feet if a two inch juvenile, and 6-feet if a larger specimen.
3. Recognize that it is very aggressive toward any other fish ounce established, and especially toward surgeonfish with the same body shape -- the Achilles for example.
Terry
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TroyF:
<strong>Terry, if it were the last fish added, could you have it in a tank of peaceful fish? I had read they were aggressive towards conspecifics.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't see why not. I have had three over the last 40-years, and they all did well. The one I have now has been with me for 10-yers at least.
Terry
<strong>Terry, if it were the last fish added, could you have it in a tank of peaceful fish? I had read they were aggressive towards conspecifics.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't see why not. I have had three over the last 40-years, and they all did well. The one I have now has been with me for 10-yers at least.
Terry
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pez:
<strong>Doesnn't this make some argument for not importing PBs that are larger than a few inches? Also, don't smaller fish generally transport more poorly?
-T</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree; it's hard to find healthy juveniles. The problem with juveniles is that they tend to get to LFS(s) in emaciated condition. The young do not have the energy reserves of adults and like all wild caught fish often haven't been fed for weeks.
If hobbyists insisted on only buying fish in good condition then it would force everyone in the business to provide only healthy animals for sale.
Terry
<strong>Doesnn't this make some argument for not importing PBs that are larger than a few inches? Also, don't smaller fish generally transport more poorly?
-T</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree; it's hard to find healthy juveniles. The problem with juveniles is that they tend to get to LFS(s) in emaciated condition. The young do not have the energy reserves of adults and like all wild caught fish often haven't been fed for weeks.
If hobbyists insisted on only buying fish in good condition then it would force everyone in the business to provide only healthy animals for sale.
Terry
Thanks, what peaceful fish, if any, do you keep yours with? Of the fish I've seen in your system most are larger fish.
Are you basing your opinion on your success with this fish or on an overall observations? The point I'm making (or trying) is that you don't exactly have the standard environment or experience. There is a thread over on reefcentral where if you even suggest that they can be kept successfully you'll be beaten to with an inch of your on-screen persona's life
.
Are you basing your opinion on your success with this fish or on an overall observations? The point I'm making (or trying) is that you don't exactly have the standard environment or experience. There is a thread over on reefcentral where if you even suggest that they can be kept successfully you'll be beaten to with an inch of your on-screen persona's life
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Um, India is not a continent so I fail to understand your logic. I believe that India technically is part of Asia.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
We are refered to by many names. I cannot tell you the number of times that I have been corrected in S. America when calling myself "American." They are quick to remind us that they are "Americans" as well, and that I am "Estado Unidense." They also refer to us as "Yanquis," which is translated as "Yankees" even though many of us in the south cringe at being labeled a yankee.
In many parts of the world we are known as "Americans," but tecnically speaking all those that live in North, South and Central America are in fact Americans. To call us "Americans" is easier than saying "Citizens of the US," and therefore many in other countries simply use "American" (or something worse) to refer to us. This is not so in Latin America where they usually refer to us as "Estados Unidense."
We here in the US are so ethnocentric (and in many cases ignorant) that we think we are the only ones worth of being called Americans. As a nation, we are pitifully ignorant of geography, world history, and the cultures of other countries.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
IME most Canadians are very proud to be Canadians, and resent being confused with people from the US despite the fact that in most parts (Quebec excepted) of Canada the culture is nearly identical to that of the US. Yes, they have their "Tim Hortons," use the word "eh" incessantly, have some strange holidays and their funny looking mounties, but crossing the border into Ontario looks the same as upstate NY. We eat the same food, speak the same language, work the same hours, enjoy the same sports (except for Curling!?) watch the same TV shows, enjoy the same pasttimes, wear the same clothes, have the same greetings, etc. It is understandable why you would not want to be called "American" considering that attitude.
The fact remains that we all live in American and are therefore "Americans." People who live in northern Europe are referred to as "Northern European" as well as "European."
I am sure I will get flamed by the many Canadians on this board, but hey, its true. I love Ontario, and have many Canadian friends.
[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: esmithiii ]</p>
Um, India is not a continent so I fail to understand your logic. I believe that India technically is part of Asia.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
We are refered to by many names. I cannot tell you the number of times that I have been corrected in S. America when calling myself "American." They are quick to remind us that they are "Americans" as well, and that I am "Estado Unidense." They also refer to us as "Yanquis," which is translated as "Yankees" even though many of us in the south cringe at being labeled a yankee.
In many parts of the world we are known as "Americans," but tecnically speaking all those that live in North, South and Central America are in fact Americans. To call us "Americans" is easier than saying "Citizens of the US," and therefore many in other countries simply use "American" (or something worse) to refer to us. This is not so in Latin America where they usually refer to us as "Estados Unidense."
We here in the US are so ethnocentric (and in many cases ignorant) that we think we are the only ones worth of being called Americans. As a nation, we are pitifully ignorant of geography, world history, and the cultures of other countries.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
IME most Canadians are very proud to be Canadians, and resent being confused with people from the US despite the fact that in most parts (Quebec excepted) of Canada the culture is nearly identical to that of the US. Yes, they have their "Tim Hortons," use the word "eh" incessantly, have some strange holidays and their funny looking mounties, but crossing the border into Ontario looks the same as upstate NY. We eat the same food, speak the same language, work the same hours, enjoy the same sports (except for Curling!?) watch the same TV shows, enjoy the same pasttimes, wear the same clothes, have the same greetings, etc. It is understandable why you would not want to be called "American" considering that attitude.
The fact remains that we all live in American and are therefore "Americans." People who live in northern Europe are referred to as "Northern European" as well as "European."
I am sure I will get flamed by the many Canadians on this board, but hey, its true. I love Ontario, and have many Canadian friends.
[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: esmithiii ]</p>
Terry,
The picture just appears as a red X for me. However, when I went to the picture properties and grabbed the link, I was able to paste it into internet explorer and get the picture to come up. It looks like MSN will not let you link to their site.
I'll try posting the same picture:
Cheers
James
The picture just appears as a red X for me. However, when I went to the picture properties and grabbed the link, I was able to paste it into internet explorer and get the picture to come up. It looks like MSN will not let you link to their site.
I'll try posting the same picture:
Cheers
James
I've had my Powder Blue going on 4 years now.
He was quite young and eating well at the LFS. Then into a Q-tank stuffed with caulerpa that he fattened himself up on before going into the reef.
But, I will add he's not 100% reef safe. Took me quite a while to figure out what was happening to my sarcophyton, as it was never opening up and shrinking dramatically in size. Turned out the PBT has a real liking for it, and had eaten a 10" sarco down to a nub.
He was quite young and eating well at the LFS. Then into a Q-tank stuffed with caulerpa that he fattened himself up on before going into the reef.
But, I will add he's not 100% reef safe. Took me quite a while to figure out what was happening to my sarcophyton, as it was never opening up and shrinking dramatically in size. Turned out the PBT has a real liking for it, and had eaten a 10" sarco down to a nub.
Posted by Terry:
Troy,
Your point is well taken, but over at Reef Central they're doing a poll on aquarist's success with this fish for a 6-month period, and almost 50% still have their PB(s).
Terry, with all do respect we are referring to a poll being conducted on a reef board. These boards are frequented by the more dedicated hobbiest and yet there is only a 50% success rate among those who have paticipated in the poll. I would imagine the success rate to be much lower if we were to take a poll of all hobbiests (aquarium keepers) who have tried this fish. Can this fish be kept by a dedicated hobbiest who gets a good specimen to begin with, sure. Should this fish be sold to the general public is the question we must ask ourselves.
As I mentioned on one of these PBT threads, my LFS has not ordered these fish for years. The reason is the owner said he had at least a 90% mortality rate.
Steve
Troy,
Your point is well taken, but over at Reef Central they're doing a poll on aquarist's success with this fish for a 6-month period, and almost 50% still have their PB(s).
Terry, with all do respect we are referring to a poll being conducted on a reef board. These boards are frequented by the more dedicated hobbiest and yet there is only a 50% success rate among those who have paticipated in the poll. I would imagine the success rate to be much lower if we were to take a poll of all hobbiests (aquarium keepers) who have tried this fish. Can this fish be kept by a dedicated hobbiest who gets a good specimen to begin with, sure. Should this fish be sold to the general public is the question we must ask ourselves.
As I mentioned on one of these PBT threads, my LFS has not ordered these fish for years. The reason is the owner said he had at least a 90% mortality rate.
Steve
Troy,
If we go by that standard, then we should close down the hobby. However, remember, even in the wild the chances of any fish reaching maturity is quite slim. Nature cares about survival of the species, not the individual.
Anyway, I'm going to try again to post a picture of my PB.
Terry
(Terry: I tried adding the "www" to see if I could get the picture to come up for me.)
[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: jamesw ]</p>
If we go by that standard, then we should close down the hobby. However, remember, even in the wild the chances of any fish reaching maturity is quite slim. Nature cares about survival of the species, not the individual.
Anyway, I'm going to try again to post a picture of my PB.
Terry
(Terry: I tried adding the "www" to see if I could get the picture to come up for me.)
[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: jamesw ]</p>
Posted by Terry:
Troy,
If we go by that standard, then we should close down the hobby.
I presume you meant Steve here rather than Troy
. Anyway, would you agree that this "standard" does not apply to all marine fish? Lets say that LFS owner I was talking about was to post to that survey. He has been in business for 15 years and probably tried, I don't know, lets say 50 pbt's over the years. At 90% mortality that would bring us to 45 dead and 5 alive, as we can see that poll would be much different after his input. I bring the LFS up again because they are the ones dealing with all facets of fish keeping, not just the dedicated hobbiest.
As far as the average life span of a powder blue in the wild goes, do you or anyone else know what this is?
Steve
Troy,
If we go by that standard, then we should close down the hobby.
I presume you meant Steve here rather than Troy
As far as the average life span of a powder blue in the wild goes, do you or anyone else know what this is?
Steve
>Terry, with all do respect we are referring to a poll being conducted on a reef board. These boards are frequented by the more dedicated hobbiest and yet there is only a 50% success rate among those who have paticipated in the poll. I would imagine the success rate to be much lower if we were to take a poll of all hobbiests (aquarium keepers) who have tried this fish. Can this fish be kept by a dedicated hobbiest who gets a good specimen to begin with, sure. Should this fish be sold to the general public is the question we must ask ourselves.
As I mentioned on one of these PBT threads, my LFS has not ordered these fish for years. The reason is the owner said he had at least a 90% mortality rate.
Steve<
Credit where credit is due
.
As I mentioned on one of these PBT threads, my LFS has not ordered these fish for years. The reason is the owner said he had at least a 90% mortality rate.
Steve<
Credit where credit is due
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TroyF:
<strong>BTW, the picture is showing up for me Terry.
I guess you missed the question earlier, what fish does the PBT share living space with</strong><hr></blockquote>
Troy,
Interesting, my picture is not showung up.
Anyway, mine shares a 10-foot tank with 6 other tangs. It especially dislikes my achilles. In general, unless you have a tank big enough to house a school of PB(s) keep it with fish that have a very different body shape, like wrasses.
<strong>BTW, the picture is showing up for me Terry.
I guess you missed the question earlier, what fish does the PBT share living space with</strong><hr></blockquote>
Troy,
Interesting, my picture is not showung up.
Anyway, mine shares a 10-foot tank with 6 other tangs. It especially dislikes my achilles. In general, unless you have a tank big enough to house a school of PB(s) keep it with fish that have a very different body shape, like wrasses.
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