You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
A Question about Garf.
- Thread starter nemeth271
- Start date
What manner are you talking about.
Overzealous self marketing
What I also mean by methods is how they setup their reef.
Low light levels
Bad IMO but it depends on the organisms
Plenum style
OK I guess, but not for me.
no skimmer for first couple of months
OK, if it works
putting in soft corals in week one
I wouldn't do that but if it works for them...
Do they conduct bad practices? Please let me know.
These aren't in themselves bad practices- they need to be assessed on a case by case basis. The proof of the pudding is in the eating- if their tanks work well then what they are doing is fine. Plenty of people complain about them, but I don't think it has anything to do with their husbandry.
Overzealous self marketing
What I also mean by methods is how they setup their reef.
Low light levels
Bad IMO but it depends on the organisms
Plenum style
OK I guess, but not for me.
no skimmer for first couple of months
OK, if it works
putting in soft corals in week one
I wouldn't do that but if it works for them...
Do they conduct bad practices? Please let me know.
These aren't in themselves bad practices- they need to be assessed on a case by case basis. The proof of the pudding is in the eating- if their tanks work well then what they are doing is fine. Plenty of people complain about them, but I don't think it has anything to do with their husbandry.
Here ya go...a "little" reading for ya.
http://www.reefs.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb ... forum&f=31
As for their methods.
They are basically recommending a plenum, low fish population, high water movement, underpowered lighted system.
Good:
They don't overstock their tanks with fish and although i don't know what they recommend on fish stocking, if you copy their tanks, they don't add much.
Lots of water flow.
Bad:
The max recommend lighting is VHO lighting. You really can't keep many types of SPS with this setup as well as clams and some species of anemones.
Plenums-if you don't do it perfectly or if something burrows down into you, you are SOL and can lead to a tank crashing.
Will it work...yes. Is it the best way...No.
Matt
http://www.reefs.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb ... forum&f=31
As for their methods.
They are basically recommending a plenum, low fish population, high water movement, underpowered lighted system.
Good:
They don't overstock their tanks with fish and although i don't know what they recommend on fish stocking, if you copy their tanks, they don't add much.
Lots of water flow.
Bad:
The max recommend lighting is VHO lighting. You really can't keep many types of SPS with this setup as well as clams and some species of anemones.
Plenums-if you don't do it perfectly or if something burrows down into you, you are SOL and can lead to a tank crashing.
Will it work...yes. Is it the best way...No.
Matt
From IceCap:
Don't discount VHO lighting, though I use 1/2 MH myself, I've seen some knock out VHO only reef tanks that defy what's accepted as basic lighting rules.
I can specifically vouch for GARFs clean-up crews which I have purchased. Everything arrived alive and healthy.
Andy
Don't discount VHO lighting, though I use 1/2 MH myself, I've seen some knock out VHO only reef tanks that defy what's accepted as basic lighting rules.
I can specifically vouch for GARFs clean-up crews which I have purchased. Everything arrived alive and healthy.
Andy
Bubafat":edfndngv said:Bad:
The max recommend lighting is VHO lighting. You really can't keep many types of SPS with this setup as well as clams and some species of anemones.
Matt
I agree with IceCap. VHO is the way to go!! Check this tank out:
http://www.palmettoreefs.com/gallery/paul/Paul.htm
He keeps acro's and clams. Here is a quote from that web site
"Paul's tank is one of the best examples that I have seen personally of what VHO lighting is capable of. I have heard many people talk about VHO lighting being inadequate for clams or SPS, but this tank proves them all wrong. "
So I scoff at you Buba
nanobrad said:
It looked like mostly leathers and softies to me. Though there were a couple of acros. I didn't see any clams, but I didn't look for long.
It is possible to keep SPS and clams with VHO. I did it for a year with my 75. But the real growth for the SPS began when I upgraded to 175 MH's. Now I wish I had 250 W MH.
Bottom line. Get MH if you can afford it and if you have the means to keep the tank temp down. I don't use a chiller and the temp never exceeds 82.
All IMHO.
Louey
but this tank proves them all wrong. "
It looked like mostly leathers and softies to me. Though there were a couple of acros. I didn't see any clams, but I didn't look for long.
It is possible to keep SPS and clams with VHO. I did it for a year with my 75. But the real growth for the SPS began when I upgraded to 175 MH's. Now I wish I had 250 W MH.
Bottom line. Get MH if you can afford it and if you have the means to keep the tank temp down. I don't use a chiller and the temp never exceeds 82.
All IMHO.
Louey
Scoff all you wish but facts stand...ya, you might be able to keep some corals alive and slowly growing on a few VHO's in a shallow tank (note how deep pauls sandbed is and the fact that he has to put his clam on rocks which can be hard to do) but for the money halides are a better option. Also note the fact that paul doesn't even try to keep any blue colored acropora's in his tank, as it would never work. How many different species of SPS does paul have in his tank? How many clamS does he have?
I'm not putting down his tank, its beautiful, I'm just trying to make a point.
Buba
I'm not putting down his tank, its beautiful, I'm just trying to make a point.
Buba
Quote:
"How many different species of SPS does paul have in his tank? How many clamS does he have?"
How many..How many....so you judge a sucessful lighting system by how many critters?? :?:
I'm not going to argue with you, but for me...I think a tank with IceCaps and URI is far more visually stunning to look at than a tank with MH lighting.
"How many different species of SPS does paul have in his tank? How many clamS does he have?"
How many..How many....so you judge a sucessful lighting system by how many critters?? :?:
I'm not going to argue with you, but for me...I think a tank with IceCaps and URI is far more visually stunning to look at than a tank with MH lighting.
I agree with IceCap. VHO is the way to go!!
I guess you are referring to that weird ad where IceCap says halides are recommended by people who make them. Its weird because Icecap makes halide ballasts also...
At any rate, the page that is linked to makes a big deal out if it being VHO- so what? I had a VHO reef ten years ago, and so did plenty of other people. There's no "pioneering" going on. If you like it- fine.
nanobrad":f38thygj said:Quote:
"How many different species of SPS does paul have in his tank? How many clamS does he have?"
How many..How many....so you judge a sucessful lighting system by how many critters?? :?:
I'm not going to argue with you, but for me...I think a tank with IceCaps and URI is far more visually stunning to look at than a tank with MH lighting.
While I can't speak for the original poster, I think you misintepret his intent. I think he is trying to emphasize that the organisms in that tank are still those that require less light than SPS and clams.
Well, I just happened to stumble on this thread and surprised to see my tank in the discussion. I refuse to argue the point being discussed. It is an old arguement that can be seen over and over. Do a search and I assure you it has all been said.
But to clarify a few things. My tank is almost 8 years old. I have every type of SPS that is available (acropora, montipora, seriatopora, pavona, pocilpora...there are close to 20 different SPS colonies) though I would consider it a mixed tank. They are all thriving both in color and growth.
As for "blue" acoporas. I have a bright purple robusta (upper right) and a tortuosa (cant see it) that have retained their color very nicely albeit they are high up in the tank. I promise, all my SPS are doing much more then just "surviving". I also recently added a acropora solitarensis that is already showing agressive new growth and changed to a beautiful aqua blue/green.
There are also two clams, a ultra maxima and an electric crocea. The maxima has been in there for over a year and has grown significantly with no color fading. Ther are on rock and not on the sand bed.
Due to the agressive growth of my SPS, I just set up a 40 breeder to aid with the export of frags. I hooked it inline to the 120 so it has near identical water parameters. However, I have a 250 W 10k DE lighting system over it. I hope to share concrete examples soon of how the exact same coral does under the same water conditions using two different type of lighting.
I never intended to be the poster child for VHO. Eight years ago these boards were not available and MH lighting was (and still is) confusing at best. VHO technology was easier to grasp and implement and I have never had a reason to switch.
Now, be good little reefers and go back to the garf bashing that I expected to see....
Paul
_________________
Ferrari F40
But to clarify a few things. My tank is almost 8 years old. I have every type of SPS that is available (acropora, montipora, seriatopora, pavona, pocilpora...there are close to 20 different SPS colonies) though I would consider it a mixed tank. They are all thriving both in color and growth.
As for "blue" acoporas. I have a bright purple robusta (upper right) and a tortuosa (cant see it) that have retained their color very nicely albeit they are high up in the tank. I promise, all my SPS are doing much more then just "surviving". I also recently added a acropora solitarensis that is already showing agressive new growth and changed to a beautiful aqua blue/green.
There are also two clams, a ultra maxima and an electric crocea. The maxima has been in there for over a year and has grown significantly with no color fading. Ther are on rock and not on the sand bed.
Due to the agressive growth of my SPS, I just set up a 40 breeder to aid with the export of frags. I hooked it inline to the 120 so it has near identical water parameters. However, I have a 250 W 10k DE lighting system over it. I hope to share concrete examples soon of how the exact same coral does under the same water conditions using two different type of lighting.
I never intended to be the poster child for VHO. Eight years ago these boards were not available and MH lighting was (and still is) confusing at best. VHO technology was easier to grasp and implement and I have never had a reason to switch.
Now, be good little reefers and go back to the garf bashing that I expected to see....
Paul
_________________
Ferrari F40
Paul said:
I would be very interested in hearing the result of your research. Keep us posted. Pic's of the frags, then and now, would be great if possible. Are you going to be documenting in this manner?
Thanks!
Louey
I hope to share concrete examples soon of how the exact same coral does under the same water conditions using two different type of lighting.
I would be very interested in hearing the result of your research. Keep us posted. Pic's of the frags, then and now, would be great if possible. Are you going to be documenting in this manner?
Thanks!
Louey
Louey,
That is exactly what I intend to do. I actually thought about getting a large graduated cylinder and measure the density of the frags by checking water that is displaced when they are placed inside. Linear measurements would not suffice....
Obviously, this would not be a perfect application of the scientific method. I already see arguements in the methodolgies. But I think it will be interesting nonetheless....
_________________
Jainism Forum
That is exactly what I intend to do. I actually thought about getting a large graduated cylinder and measure the density of the frags by checking water that is displaced when they are placed inside. Linear measurements would not suffice....
Obviously, this would not be a perfect application of the scientific method. I already see arguements in the methodolgies. But I think it will be interesting nonetheless....
_________________
Jainism Forum
As for my personal opinions on GARF, I feel that they do more good than harm. Here is a summary:
Pros:
-Very informative website on propogation if you know how to search it
-They grow many different species of coral
-They show techniques for making your own liverock, and for low cost reef solutions that work somewhat well for the beginner
-They seem to be genuinely nice folks and seem eager to help newbies. Their advice is mixed, though
-I have heard mostly good things about their clean-up crews
-They give their time to do seminars on propogation and making liverock
Cons:
-They are a business, but seem to communicate that they are a non-profit organization
-They enhance images using photoshop to make them look more apealing (Not a big deal IMO, as they don't seem to use the images to sell coral)
-They seem to have a compound in Idaho with "followers" who work there
As for lighting- Yes, you can have a nice reef with lots of VHO. IMO, MH looks better, and allow you to keep more species of coral.
Paul's tank looks great, but I have yet to see a tank dominated by SPS that wasn't lit by MH. Most hobbiests that keep many SPS species swear by them. The glitter lines created by the MH lamps are unbeatable! Most SPS corals colour up best under intense light. Dollar for dollar, MH lamps provide more output.
Personally I would never suggest that a person use solely VHO for a SPS and clam tank.
Ernie
Pros:
-Very informative website on propogation if you know how to search it
-They grow many different species of coral
-They show techniques for making your own liverock, and for low cost reef solutions that work somewhat well for the beginner
-They seem to be genuinely nice folks and seem eager to help newbies. Their advice is mixed, though
-I have heard mostly good things about their clean-up crews
-They give their time to do seminars on propogation and making liverock
Cons:
-They are a business, but seem to communicate that they are a non-profit organization
-They enhance images using photoshop to make them look more apealing (Not a big deal IMO, as they don't seem to use the images to sell coral)
-They seem to have a compound in Idaho with "followers" who work there
As for lighting- Yes, you can have a nice reef with lots of VHO. IMO, MH looks better, and allow you to keep more species of coral.
Paul's tank looks great, but I have yet to see a tank dominated by SPS that wasn't lit by MH. Most hobbiests that keep many SPS species swear by them. The glitter lines created by the MH lamps are unbeatable! Most SPS corals colour up best under intense light. Dollar for dollar, MH lamps provide more output.
Personally I would never suggest that a person use solely VHO for a SPS and clam tank.
Ernie
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
