Pernanganate Potasio

[Ozelo]

Hi,

I would like know your opinion abaout the use of pernanganate potasio in reefs to the combat against cyanobacteria and red algae.
I know sone aquarists are using pernanganate for alternative to the product Red Slime from Ultralife and they are still dispensing small proportions in continuos times to impede the algae to come back.
Another question is: if the pernangamate has the properties to increase the ORP, it wold not be useful in the treatment of the ictio fish inside the reef?

thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Are you talking about Potassium Permanganate?

If so, I've only used it in ponds, to help bind to to free-floating particulate matter (including algae). I truly can't remember its other uses without doing a search. I can tell you, though, it makes quite a stain, especially on cotton, permanent. While it produced no negative effects on my koi, I couldn't speak to its uses or problems in a salt or reef setup.

 

[Anonymous]

This from Google:

http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dolchem/html/comp/kmno4.html

Potassium Permanganate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Potassium permanganate, KMnO4, is a purple crystalline compound with a metallic sheen. It is soluble in water, in acetone and in methanol, but it is decomposed by ethanol.
Potassium permanganate is prepared by fusing manganese dioxide with potassium hydroxide to form the potassium manganate and then electrolysing the manganate solution using iron electrodes at about 60 degC.

Potassium permanganate is widely used as a powerful oxidizing agent, as a disinfectant in a variety of applications, and as an analytical oxidant reagent in redox titrations.

 

[Anonymous]

And CHECK IT OUT! You can get 5lbs of Sodium Thiosulfate for $8 freakin' dollars!!!! WOW...want the link? Well, here, even if you don't want it, I decided I'ma do it anyways...

http://www.pondepot.com/water_treatment/potasium.html

 

[liquid]

I'm guessing you probably got this information from Thiel's articles? FWIW, I tried KMnO4 to increase my ORP but all it did was seriously p!$$ off my corals. As soon as I added one drop to my 40 gal tank they all closed up and were *not* happy. They recovered in an hour or so, but I would never do it again. Plus it didn't help my cyano either.

Shane

 

[Anonymous]

Who, me? Nope, just a Google search (although if I had 'em in hardcopy I'd read anything and just about everything of his I could).

The quote came from the University of Cork, chem dept.

But hey, whaddaya think about that Sodium Thiosulfate deal, eh? (Then again, I wouldn't bat an eye if you have a better one.)

 

[liquid]

Hehe, nope, that was directed @ Ozelo as the only place I've ever seen potassium permanganate recommended for cyano was on Thiel's site. The theory is that KMnO4 is a powerful oxidizing agent and that by adding minute amounts of it to your tank you increase the redox potential of your tank water.

Yep, sodium thiosulfate is dirt cheap. Imagine how much dechlor you could make w/ 5 lbs of that.

BTW, Ozelo: Welcome to reefs.org. Take a moment to check this page out as it will show you how to get the most out of your reefs.org experience: http://www.reefs.org/library/howto.html

Shane

 

[trigger0214]

Potassium permanganate is widely used as a powerful oxidizing agent, as a disinfectant in a variety of applications, and as an analytical oxidant reagent in redox titrations.

You might as well put bleach in your tank. Be careful.

 

[teeljay]

sodium thiosulfate.....hmmmm.....isn't that pentathol...as in the "truth serum"?
:wink:

 

[Garry thomas]

i'v used kmno4 with no problems at all,shane did you mix it yourself? are you aware that kent markets it? it's awesome stuff,but follow the instructions. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Hello.

I see you are in Brazil so it may be hard to get this product.

But a product I have used to effectively treat cyanobacteria is called Chemi-Clean by the makers of Chemi-Pure. I believe it has a permanganate in it, but I cannot be sure.

Chemi-Clean was safe on my corals, but I don't know about other's experiences.

I would avoid potassium permangate unless I knew of someone using it first.

I would use Chemi-Clean again.

 

[Will C1]

i have heard the stuff is bad for corals something about to much oxydizing at once inside the corals...i have been told you could use it in an emmergency situation a all or nothing to save the fish in case of a crash.

 

[madrefkepr]

Interesting... Last time I used it was to clean/disinfect my water softener. I have also heard of it being used to sterilize aquariums. Wouldn't think it would be too good for a reef tank. Does someone have a link to an article on it's use in reef tanks? Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Potassium permanganate is widely used as a powerful oxidizing agent, as a disinfectant in a variety of applications, and as an analytical oxidant reagent in redox titrations.

You might as well put bleach in your tank. Be careful.

I thought for sure that I linked the from where I got the quote. This is a general chemistry/petroleum oriented University (of Cork). It wasn't meant to give any information on the use of P.P. As I said I have only used it with ponds and pond fishes (and the last time was years ago)...I'm pretty sure I did at least...lemme look.

Yep, but I think it didn't link as it should, let me try that link again (cuz I like good schtuff like this)

http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/ but that's not the link I used...HERE it is..

http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dolche ... kmno4.html yeah...

In any event, I don't think that's quite the right analogy. If that were so, then we'd have to say the same thing about ozone, seeing as how it does very much the same thing (oxidation).

 

[Garry thomas]

Well i use it in my reef ,and i can assure you if it was not 100% safe i wouldnt use it. :lol:

 

[liquid]

i'v used kmno4 with no problems at all,shane did you mix it yourself? are you aware that kent markets it? it's awesome stuff,but follow the instructions. :roll:

Yes, I mixed it myself. I knew the target concentration per Thiel's recommendations and since I'm a chemist... My guess is that the Kent stuff is probably a much more dilute solution of KMnO4 than what I mixed. Either way, I'd never use it again.

Shane

 

[liquid]

sodium thiosulfate.....hmmmm.....isn't that pentathol...as in the "truth serum"?
:wink:

Nope, two different animals:

Sodium thiosulfate (dechlorinator): Na2S2O3
Use (according to the Merck Index): "To remove chlorine from solutions according to the following equation:
Na2S2O3 + 4 Cl2 +5 H2O --> 2 NaHSO4 + 8 HCl
and
Na2S2O3 + 2 HCl --> 2 NaCl + H2O + S + SO2"

hth

Shane

 

[randy holmes-farley]

I do not advise people to use permanganate in their tanks. The logic of doing so has always escaped me. I think it is the natural but inappropriate extension of Thiel's insistence that ORP is a measure of the cleanliness of the water.

Permanganate is added because it oxidizes organic mnaterials. That is, it chemically reacts with them and starts them on their way to chemical destruction.

What is coating the surface of every living thing in the tank? Organic molecules.

So it is certainly reacting with, and oxidizing the surfaces of all of the living things in your tank.

Given that, even with the HYPOTHESIS that what it does to the soluble orgnaics is desirable, why would anyone actually do it?

 

[teeljay]

Liquid....Thanks...I think you are right. I had the wrong drug in mind.

The dose of sodium thiosulfate will be different for different patients. The following information includes only the average doses of sodium thiosulfate.

For injection dosage form:
For use with cisplatin (a cancer medicine):
Adults and teenagers—The first dose, given just before the cancer medicine, is usually 4 grams per square meter of body surface area, injected into a vein. The second dose is started at the same time as the cancer medicine. It is usually 12 grams per square meter of body surface area, injected into a vein over a period of six hours.
For cyanide poisoning:
Adults and teenagers—The usual dose is 12.5 grams injected into a vein at a rate of 0.625 to 1.25 grams (2.5 to 5 milliliters [mL]) per minute.
Children—The usual dose is 412.5 milligrams (mg) per kilogram (kg) (187 mg per pound) of body weight or 7 grams per square meter of body surface area injected into a vein at a rate of 0.625 to 1.25 grams (2.5 to 5 mL) per minute.

I was thinking of sodium thiopentathol different animal alltogether!
C11 H18 N2 O2 S

 

[Anonymous]

I still say this stuff works amazingly, and I will continue to use if I ever have this problem again.