Weekly Discussion - Wild Caught Coral

[Anonymous]

Weekly Discussion - Wild Caught Coral

When is the last time you bought a wild caught coral for your tank? Why did you buy it instead of a propagated coral?

About the RDO Weekly Discussion:
This discussion is meant to get at your experience and to share information that is in your head, so don't necessarily treat it as information gathering. State your opinion and, if available, use material, anecdotal or otherwise, that will back up your opinion.
Past weekly discussions will be archived in the archives.
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[Anonymous]

Early this year, I bought a bubble coral. I don't think they can be propped. (I Could be wrong.)

B

 

[Anonymous]

Very few people proprogate encrusting Monti., so that's what I did...

 

[wade1]

I have never once bought a wild colony to put in my tank. Its predominately sps, although I have a couple of lps, and some softies in my lit refugium.

I've managed to overfill a 150g with props!

http://www.earthandh2o.com/reef/july200 ... 202003.jpg

http://www.earthandh2o.com/reef/july200 ... 202003.jpg

Wade

 

[Joey French]

Back in the day, first tank, I bought a sarcophyton and a plerogyra from lfs. My current tank has two RESCUED acro colonies, and a tubestraea that I received for a seriously reduced sale price from an lfs as well. I have been guilty of purchasing wild corals, it would seem, only when the colony is going to die in a tank of death at the store. I guess that's how they get me... Get a seriously nice piece in, leave it in the tank for a while so that it goes into severe decline, then I'll feel sorry for it and buy it cheap, nurse it back to health in my own tank. F*%$ing sad....
Joey
Oh, yeah, by the way, these purchases constitute almost none of the corals I have in my tank, probably 95% of my corals are from frags, frags themselves/ from someone else's tank.

 

[Anonymous]

All of my euphylia are wild, as is my A. millopora colony. The rest of my SPS are captive. So, the last time I purchased a wild colony was about 6 months ago I suppose.
I'll be purchasing another wild frogspawn soon when I find one with the color I want.
After that, it will be mostly captive frags. All the sps will be captive for sure.

Jim

 

[dgasmd]

Well, in my 360 gal SPS system, I have 2 brain corals that I purchased well over a year ago. That is it. The rest is all from frags of other captive raised corals.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm... I have a Trachyphylia which are not fraggable- other than that all frags, although in some cases I really have no way of knowing someone hasn't just busted up a wild head.

 

[-JB]

OK I'll admit it. I buy wild corals. The last time I bought one was maybe two months ago. Why did I choose it over a propagated coral? Color, size and price. If you want to buy SPS corals the selection on propagated coral is weak to say the least. Most are brown or dark green corals, if it got a colored tip that's a bonus . The few people who have nice selections or propagated corals for sale charge very high prices. Now, I don't have a problem paying the price for the coral. But even if your willing to pay, your choices are very limited. If you want a solid purple SPS, prices are between $50-100 for a frag. Want a blue coral? Expect to pay $70-100 or more. Plus there's really only a one or two versions of the blue tort or purple monsters out there. Then you have the waiting lists. I've been on them and received frags 1" that I waited 5 months for.

Also I have very good results with wild SPS corals, probably 70-80%. Propagated corals are no guarantee either as I've lost $90 frags too.

I think the market for propagated corals is there. No one has figured out a way to make it work, though. Corals grow too slow for it to be a viable means right now. Almost no LFS carry them. To expect the average person to wait 4-6 months on a waiting list, pay upwards of $50-80 for a one inch frag and still pay $50 for overnight shipping is just not going to happen.

 

[LauraH]

I'll buy what frags that I can get my hands on, but I do buy wild every now and then. My tank is probably 50/50. People in this area haven't really caught on to the fragging idea yet. We've got one LFS that is really trying to encourage it by offering some pretty decent store credit for frags, but it's slow in coming. Hopefully people will start catching on soon.

I do alot of fragging, from both grown out frags and growing wild colonies. Most go to the LFS, some to friends. We know one couple with a 125gal who tell us that about 80% of what's in their tank came from my tank, so in a more indirect way, I hope I'm helping.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't want this topic to become a 'you are bad if you buy wild' fest. I was more interested in the numbers and the reasons, rather than a witch hunt. After all, someone has to be buying the wild stuff!

The last time I bought a wild colony was about 2 months ago. A rasberry milli that had some bare patches on it and a crab in it. It is now doing well.

 

[Anonymous]

Ummm....I would like to amend my post from above. The last time I bought a wild coral was...YESTERDAY! Hey, it was a GORGEOUS green Bali frogspawn. I've been waiting for one of those.

Cheers
Jim

 

[-JB]

I don't think it should be a bash if you buy wild corals. I just wanted to point to the some of the problems I still see with propagated corals being a viable source for hobbyists.

 

[Anonymous]

JB, that wasn't directed at you at all. More an effort to get others to post without feeling they would be bashed for telling the truth!

 

[clarionreef]

Wow guys,
If the thousands of boxes weekly coming into LA International Airport is any indication, somebodys buying them.
On an average the boxes contain 24 pieces each.
The CITIES export figures are well known and scrambling for quotas and paying bribes to fishery officials in the Bogor, [ Indonesia Fishery offices] to secure them in a longstanding routine.
Sustainable yield? Also a longstanding joke in those same offices.
THE CORAL TRADE [AS PRACTICED] IS EASILY AS SHAMEFUL AS THE CYANIDE TRADE. ITS JUST THAT NO ONE WROTE THE INVESTIGATIVE EXPOSE as was done in the Philippine fish trade..
Non Indonesian Coral farms need to ramp up production of different species as quickly as possible. This reef trade of ours is hanging delicately in the balance of Indonesian political 'stability' and the protected policies of slash and burn fishery management.
The beauty of the product sure does not jive with the process that procures it...thats for sure!
Of course it 'could' be done right...but is not.
Sincerely, Steve

 

[naesco]

Wow guys,
If the thousands of boxes weekly coming into LA International Airport is any indication, somebodys buying them.
On an average the boxes contain 24 pieces each.
The CITIES export figures are well known and scrambling for quotas and paying bribes to fishery officials in the Bogor, [ Indonesia Fishery offices] to secure them in a longstanding routine.
Sustainable yield? Also a longstanding joke in those same offices.
THE CORAL TRADE [AS PRACTICED] IS EASILY AS SHAMEFUL AS THE CYANIDE TRADE. ITS JUST THAT NO ONE WROTE THE INVESTIGATIVE EXPOSE as was done in the Philippine fish trade..
Non Indonesian Coral farms need to ramp up production of different species as quickly as possible. This reef trade of ours is hanging delicately in the balance of Indonesian political 'stability' and the protected policies of slash and burn fishery management.
The beauty of the product sure does not jive with the process that procures it...thats for sure!
Of course it 'could' be done right...but is not.
Sincerely, Steve

Nearly as shameful but not as shameful. Wild harvest of coral removes the coral and damage is done to the rock. The coral will replenish itself.
Cyanide kills everything in the reefhead, all the fish, coral, inverts and the rock itself. It takes 7 years before the reef comes back again.

 

[Anonymous]

A reef with substrate (dead coral in this case, due to cyanide) will attract more corals/life and be a better habitat then if theres no substrate (corals completely removed). NOT THAT I'M SAYING CYANIDE ISN"T HARMFUL, WRONG AND OUTRIGHT SAD!!!

Ever seen the rejects from Indo coral exporters, MASSIVE mounds of stuff that wouldn't fit the cookie cuttter mold the hobbyists require (size,shape,color). The exporters facilities look more like slaughter houses then shippers, with the bandsaws, piles of skeletons and such.

I don't know about you, but I love picking BROWN corals so I can see what they'll color up to (if they ever do). I've got this brain I saved from work that was poo brown, now its a metalic green with white lips.

 

[LauraH]

I don't know about you, but I love picking BROWN corals so I can see what they'll color up to (if they ever do). I've got this brain I saved from work that was poo brown, now its a metalic green with white lips.

Isn't it cool when that happens? I will also buy drab corals and probably 80% of the time, they will color up if they are a species known to produce spectacular colors.

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
Some, small corals repopulate the reef area in 7 years but not the 100 year old stands that are often decimated to cull the nicer looking, more symetrical pieces.
Euphylia, caulestra, elegans and many more come out of "mother stands" of coral that no one would find defensible if they saw it.
I have worked in Indonesia on this and was apalled. I also understand that investigative reporting of such things can get you killed in that corrupt dictatorship that our lovely reef trade is based on.
7 years to recover? What? birds nest? Gonipora? Small acros and pocilliporas?
Lets just say the expose was not written and that the reef trade has dodged a bullet.
Steve

 

[John_Brandt]

An Indonesian coral harvest report (of sorts) has been done. This is a brief synopsis of a lecture Andrew Bruckner gave at MACNA-Baltimore 2 years ago. Andy was still alive and well when I saw him in Puerto Rico last October :wink:


"The Stony Coral Trade in Indonesia: An Assessment of Sustainability"

Andrew W. Bruckner
NOAA Fisheries

Abstract:

Indonesia is currently the world's largest exporter of stony corals for ornamental markets, with an annual trade of about 2 million colonies of stony coral and live rock. To date, Indonesia is the only country that has developed management mechanisms for stony coral resources that includes a quota for the annual harvest of corals, established for each taxa for each of the 10 provinces where harvest is permitted. The management plan for Indonesia has general guidelines for the sustainable utilization of coral resources. However, concerns have been raised that the export quotas established by Indonesia are not based on available scientific information on the biology, distribution and abundance of the taxa, or the amount of harvest that the resource can support.

NOAA Fisheries in collaboration with TRAFFIC Europe is conducting an analysis of the stony coral trade in Indonesia, to provide guidance in the development of complementary management approaches. The initial component of this project is focusing on specific taxa of corals that are currently under trade suspension in the EU , which make up close to 50% of the total annual quota allocated by the CITES Authorities of Indonesia.

In this study, we assessed the distribution, abundance, population demography, habitat requirements and life history characteristics of the taxa in trade. We also examined the patterns of coral utilization, including the numbers of collectors, locations of collection and the amount and type of harvest. The goals are to map the distribution of the harvested taxa and describe the condition of the resource, to determine ecologically sustainable collection guidelines. Preliminary information from the Spermonde Archipelago, South Sulawesi, and recommendations on possible constraints that should be placed on current harvest levels is presented.

Full 172 page report worth reading... Proceedings of the International Workshop on the Trade in Stony Corals: Development of Sustainable Management Guidelines , April 9-12 Jakarta, Indonesia - Andrew Bruckner NOAA Fisheries: http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/habitat/ecosystem/ecosysdocs/indonesiaproceedingsfinal.pdf