Water Change Tank-Flow Diagram, Will This Work?

[Anonymous]

Chris said:

Shouldn't the flow lines be going from the RO/DI unit toward the sump/wc tank instead of away

Actually, that arrow was only meant to show the water line leaving the area. The water would obviously flow the other way. :wink:

Also, how can you control the fluid level in two different tanks with two float switches with one RO/DI unit? Won't you need solenoids or something so only the tank that needs water is getting water?

The tee in the line makes that possible. I really wasn't meaning to show much in the way of detail in the float switch arrangement. That'll be the topic of another thread later. I'm trying to nail down the sizes of the major pieces of equipement. Once the skimmer class is complete, I'm gonna start building stuff. I will probably start with the stand. So far the stand will house the sump, water change tank, skimmer (maybe two) , calcium reactor, neilen reactor, and the return pumps. As well as the pumps for the skimmers, reactors, etc.

Man, i gotta lot of work to do!

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Wait a sec.

The original idea was to have the wc tank in line all the time for extra water volume. Then when a wc was necessary, you would isolate the wc tank from the system, drain it, fill it with new water, then put it back in line. Right?

I think all the overflow lines would have to run into the wc tank (with a bypass for times you are mixing up new water). Essentialy you are making a huge sump with a section that can be isolated and bypassed, and the isolatable section has overflows.

The water flows from the tank into the wc tank, where it overflows into the sump and is pumped back up to the tank. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[Anonymous]

Righty, you are right. As shown on revision #3, it will work. Most people seem to fell that it is a little more complicated than needed. But it works. Also, there is a mathmatical issue that is never ending. My original intention was to be able to do a 25% WC. 300G tank times 25% is 75 gallon, right? Well, now I have a 75G WC tank, a 75 gallon sump, the system volume has become 450G. Okay, I still want to do a 25% WC. 450 times 25% = 112.5G. Now the sump and the WC tank need 112.5G capacity and the total system is now 550G. 25% of 550 is 137.5. Now sump and WC tank need to have 137.5 capacity and the total system is now 575. This math goes on indefinately until my setup reaches the Gulf of Mexico and becomes a flow through system. While I'm not opposed to this, I think I must put a cap on it somewhere.

This thread has given me plenty to chew on. This is good. I really want to build the tank ease of maintanance in mind. And putting my ideas up for everyone to poke holes in will surely help me build it right the first time. Ain't the internet wonderful.

If anyone has any other ideas, please post them.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

If I were to do it again, I think I would do something like what you have been getting at. Close the section off, drain it, fill it, and boom your are done. Heck, I have an old 50 gallon laying around. I may just plumb it into the system for water changes (although I think I would feed it from the sump with a pump and let it gravity drain back into the sump - turn off the power head and drain - fill & mix at leasure, and turn the pump back on. Similiar to what is I do now, but easier than watching the thing drain for 15 minutes, and rushing to refill because of the lower water level in the sump).

It seems less complicated and less messy than having to drain 70 gallons out of your sump, and having another containter that you then need to pump into the sump, plus, as you said, you get the larger water volume. You flip 2 valves and away you go - with no worry about the tank over flowing or over draining (assuming a top system in the sump and a ro float switch in the wc tank).

If you have the space, I don't really see why you wouldn't do it. I guess the best would be to do what you are suggesting and have another water storage tank ready.

What were peoples major concerns about the system?

 

[Anonymous]

Good point Righty. I'm not quite sure why folks think the in-line system is too complicated. I got alot of "IMO" ?

It seems less complicated and less messy than having to drain 70 gallons out of your sump, and having another containter that you then need to pump into the sump, plus, as you said, you get the larger water volume. You flip 2 valves and away you go - with no worry about the tank over flowing or over draining (assuming a top system in the sump and a ro float switch in the wc tank).

The messyness of draining the tank is the same, regardless of which I go. The old water has to be pumped out to a drain either way. It is two tanks either way (sump and WC tank). The pump in the WC tank in the revision #4 would be hard piped up and over and into the sump. So to do a water change, I would drain the sump, turn on the pump in the WC tank, and a few minutes later I'm done. It is actually less work than if I went with revision #3. With revision #3, I have to change the position of 4 ball valves, drain the WC tank, wait a day or so for it to refill, mix salt (of course), reverse the ball valves.

With revision 3, the tanks capacity is increased, which is a good thing, but an emergency WC would take time which would be determined by the feed rate of the RO/DI, likely a day or two. With revision #4, an emergency WC could be done as quickly as the salt melts, say an hour or two.

I leaning towards revision #4.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Re revision 4:

With this arrangment, the return pump will be shut off so that the sump fills to the same capacity as the WC tank. Once emptied, the sump will be refilled by a cheap pump in the WC tank. That's it!

For this to happen, wouldn't the water that fills the sump have to come from the main tank, lowering the water level in the main tank, exposing corals to air? And, why would the sump fill? Are the return lines way below the water level? In a power failure, wouldn't the sump fill and the main tank drain?

I am sure I am missing something basic.

Are is your skimmer and heater in the sump? If so, you have to shut them off too when you drain the sump.

The emergency water change is the only argument that seems to hold water. Ha! I made a pun! You could do the best of both worlds if you have the room - have an ro storage tank as well as the wc tank.

 

[Anonymous]

For this to happen, wouldn't the water that fills the sump have to come from the main tank, lowering the water level in the main tank, exposing corals to air?

The sump is going to have a very high running level, highest possible without overflowing in a power outage. Am I all wet in this thinking?

Are is your skimmer and heater in the sump?

Skimmer will be external. Heater, lol, during the rare cold spell where i actually have one plugged in, it would have to be unplugged.

You could do the best of both worlds if you have the room - have an ro storage tank as well as the wc tank.

This is true. And I may. I'll have to wait till the whole systems is designed and see if there is room. We'll see.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

For this to happen, wouldn't the water that fills the sump have to come from the main tank, lowering the water level in the main tank, exposing corals to air?

The sump is going to have a very high running level, highest possible without overflowing in a power outage. Am I all wet in this thinking?

Nope, sounds fine. Match the volume of the wc tank to the volume of the sump running at topped off capacity.

This is true. And I may. I'll have to wait till the whole systems is designed and see if there is room. We'll see.

There is always room!

 

[esmithiii]

Here is my layout:

I have two large 65g storage tanks (CAD drawings of storage tanks (PDF) or United States Plastic Corp, price list) for bulk water storage. One is for fresh water (which is fed by a 75gpd 4-stage RO/DI unit), the other is for mixing salt water for water changes. I have another, open topped container (20g) for dosing kalkwasser, which is done with a float switch and a powerhead.

To do a water change, All I have to do is syphon off the desired amount (the tank is in the basement near a drain) and then open the valve on the SW tank and voilá!

Having a second tank plumbed into the system for extra water volume and for water changes seems like a cool idea. I don't think it would be that much less work than my setup, though.

Ernie

 

[Anonymous]

Sweet setup Ernie. Nice drawing too. What program did you use? I've been looking for a program that has plumbing fittings like that. My sketches here were done with Smartdraw 6.0 Professional. I have dabbled with Microsoft Visioas well. I haven't found those fitting in either program. Of course, with 50,000 items to choose from, maybe they are there and I just haven't found them yet. :wink:

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Erinie, you always have the best diagrams!

I like the idea of the tank plumed into the main system, because you get the increased water volume. Maybe when the kid is napping this week I will try something...

 

[esmithiii]

Believe it or not, I used MS powerpoint. Once I had drawn all the shapes I wanted (elbows, Tees, ball valves, skimmers, pumps, tanks, etc) it is simple to cut and paste to quickly put a diagram together.

let me know if you would like a copy of my shapes.

Ernie

 

[Anonymous]

let me know if you would like a copy of my shapes

I would like a copy of your shapes.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

I too, would like a copy of your shapes!

 

[Mogo]

Louey.
There you go. Nice. RO water to float valves by changing arrowhead. If you raise the bottom of the wc container to sump water level, you won't even need a pump in there.

ChrisRD
The RO lines can be split with a tee where the water goes where it needs to go via water pressure to the desired water level. Then the float valves kick in.