Small fish suggestions for reef
- Thread starter 105man
- Start date
105man I will try and not be mean but your tank is doomed.
I truly do not know where to start.
First off do you know whether or not your CBB was cyanide caught?
You do not have what it takes to keep a mandarin. A mandarin needs a mature tank with a lot of live rock. 2 things you do not have and 1 you will never have in your size tank.
A yellow tang will not last long in a tank that is approximatley 3.5' long. Eventually you will have aggression problems.
I am sorry to tell you this and maybe you will not believe me but I am afraid it is the truth.
I would keep the flame, remove all other fish, and ad some of the following fish.
clown goby
neon goby
watchman goby
firefish
assessor
dottyback
wrasse
these are just a few to name
So lets not concentrate on putting more fish in your tank, not until you do the right thing and find proper homes for the fish you have. Maybe you can trade them in.
Good Luck, Jack
I truly do not know where to start.
First off do you know whether or not your CBB was cyanide caught?
You do not have what it takes to keep a mandarin. A mandarin needs a mature tank with a lot of live rock. 2 things you do not have and 1 you will never have in your size tank.
A yellow tang will not last long in a tank that is approximatley 3.5' long. Eventually you will have aggression problems.
I am sorry to tell you this and maybe you will not believe me but I am afraid it is the truth.
I would keep the flame, remove all other fish, and ad some of the following fish.
clown goby
neon goby
watchman goby
firefish
assessor
dottyback
wrasse
these are just a few to name
So lets not concentrate on putting more fish in your tank, not until you do the right thing and find proper homes for the fish you have. Maybe you can trade them in.
Good Luck, Jack
Umm.. I've read his post three times now, and I have yet to figure out where you got 3 1/2' from, ZF. As a matter of fact, he hasn't stated anything that would lead you to make the presuppositions you have. Are you sure you're posting to the right thread?
105man, I second the neon gobies, you can't go wrong with those, but you've mentioned chromis and clowns. So what about flasher or picture wrasses of some sort? Incredible fishes, to be sure. If you've got a 'fuge set up then a good source of pods shouldn't be an issue.
105man, I second the neon gobies, you can't go wrong with those, but you've mentioned chromis and clowns. So what about flasher or picture wrasses of some sort? Incredible fishes, to be sure. If you've got a 'fuge set up then a good source of pods shouldn't be an issue.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh sea maiden you must do your research
How can you PROPERLY recommend a fish without knowing what size tank you are recommending it for?
Here is a little secret, do a search on the authors posts (all 14 of them), see if he has stated in any of his previous posts (maybe in the topic block) what size tank he has.
I am pretty confident you will then see what size tank he has. Then please tell me what you think of his inhabitants and what I have recommended he do with his tank.
Regards, Jack
How can you PROPERLY recommend a fish without knowing what size tank you are recommending it for?
Here is a little secret, do a search on the authors posts (all 14 of them), see if he has stated in any of his previous posts (maybe in the topic block) what size tank he has.
I am pretty confident you will then see what size tank he has. Then please tell me what you think of his inhabitants and what I have recommended he do with his tank.
Regards, Jack
Oohh.. Zoo, I have spent a very good part of the day working on WetWeb, quite honestly I'm knackered and haven't got the energy to research everyone's posts (though kudos to you for doing so). If he's really got a system as you say.. then I cannot argue.
However, is there any way we can work on your delivery?
However, is there any way we can work on your delivery?
Zoofarmer, we respect your opinions, but you have to learn how to express them in a more tactful, civil, and respectful manner. I have hopes that you can do this. Please try your best. I've extended my hand in helping you learn how to express your opinions without being hostile and rude. You are still welcome to email me for any advice.
Well Len thanks for the kind words. And I am pleased you respect my opinions, but how about giving an opinion of your own?
Do you think a Yellow Tang can thrive in a 56 corner tank?
Do you think a mandarin can curvive in a newly setup 56 corner tank with out a refugium?
Do you think the current stock level for this 56 corner is appropriate
yellow tang
copper banded butterfly
flame angel
mandarin goby
Now Len here is the big question............
WOULD YOU KEEP THIS TANK?
Do you think a Yellow Tang can thrive in a 56 corner tank?
Do you think a mandarin can curvive in a newly setup 56 corner tank with out a refugium?
Do you think the current stock level for this 56 corner is appropriate
yellow tang
copper banded butterfly
flame angel
mandarin goby
Now Len here is the big question............
WOULD YOU KEEP THIS TANK?
:lol:
Sometimes even admins need a hand...
As I've mentioned before in other threads, some personalities just don't jibe with the majority.. To use the same analogy as last time, some folks get up into that personal space when they talk with you. It's not that (most) do this intentionally, it's just they way some folks are. Tolerance and understanding is needed with these folks, for only for their sake, but your own..
That said, nice or not, I find it hard to argue the cold hard facts with Zoo...
105, if you haven't gotten the official welcome several times over yet..
(We're like a huge family here, not always so nice to each other but if you stick around long enough, you'll find your niche amongst us.. :wink: )
Sorry for your predicament.. My guess is you were led astray by a local fish store who you'll quickly learn is a lot like the ones we gripe about on here.. (Again, if you stay here long enough which I hope you do..)
At any rate, ZooFarmer is right, you should make some changes and quickly if you can. What you have is certain doom waiting to happen. I would start by returning that copperband if you can.. I'm sure it was expensive and the shop you got it from will surely balk at returning it and giving you your $$ back. Personally, I'd be EXTREMELY firm (and fairly polite) in doing so. They obviously failed to ask what setup you had & how you intended to keep it. The same goes with the tang and the madarin. -- You may want to ask them if they've looked into MAC certification while you're at it.
Good luck, please let us know how things progress....
(NOTE: PLEASE, NO FLAME WARS ABOUT THE MAC COMMENT! - I happen to think this organization CAN do good given time.. That and the owner of my LFS - who I have utmost respect for - is probably now an employee of MAC..)
Norm
Sometimes even admins need a hand...
As I've mentioned before in other threads, some personalities just don't jibe with the majority.. To use the same analogy as last time, some folks get up into that personal space when they talk with you. It's not that (most) do this intentionally, it's just they way some folks are. Tolerance and understanding is needed with these folks, for only for their sake, but your own..
That said, nice or not, I find it hard to argue the cold hard facts with Zoo...
105, if you haven't gotten the official welcome several times over yet..
(We're like a huge family here, not always so nice to each other but if you stick around long enough, you'll find your niche amongst us.. :wink: )
Sorry for your predicament.. My guess is you were led astray by a local fish store who you'll quickly learn is a lot like the ones we gripe about on here.. (Again, if you stay here long enough which I hope you do..)
At any rate, ZooFarmer is right, you should make some changes and quickly if you can. What you have is certain doom waiting to happen. I would start by returning that copperband if you can.. I'm sure it was expensive and the shop you got it from will surely balk at returning it and giving you your $$ back. Personally, I'd be EXTREMELY firm (and fairly polite) in doing so. They obviously failed to ask what setup you had & how you intended to keep it. The same goes with the tang and the madarin. -- You may want to ask them if they've looked into MAC certification while you're at it.
Good luck, please let us know how things progress....
(NOTE: PLEASE, NO FLAME WARS ABOUT THE MAC COMMENT! - I happen to think this organization CAN do good given time.. That and the owner of my LFS - who I have utmost respect for - is probably now an employee of MAC..)
Norm
Zoofarmer, you're dodging (or rather, glossing over) the intention of my post again, but I will be happy to answer your questions one by one.
Without knowing the exact dimensions of a 56 gallon, yes, I believe a small (<3") yellow tang can fare well in a tank of that volume. If it's 42" in length as you mentioned, I honestly don't see a reason why one can't be kept for an extended period of time (several years) before having to give it up to a bigger tank. I've seen small tangs do well in 60 gallon tanks and in 48" tanks such as mine, so I see no reason why a 56 gallon is not a possiblity. As stated, however, I don't recall the exact dimensions of a 56 corner so I'm open to rebuke. Note: Tangs definitely do a lot better in larger tanks. But this is true of most fish.
I do not recommend Mandarins for newly established tanks and in most cases, without a refugium. This is not to say the latter can't be done, but it's simply healthier if you run a refugium for a display tank that houses Mandarins. There are a few Mandarins reported to eat prepared foods, but I wouldn't count on it as it is rare IME. To be honest, I usually steer people away from Mandarins altogether unless the tank is very big (>180 gallons).
Depending on the sizes of the specimens, I think the current stock level may be acceptable (with the exception of the Mandarin, assuming the tank is new as you suggest). His tank is not "doomed" as you put it, and - no offense intended - I think you do everyone a disservice with such dramatic negativity. Certainly sooner or later, the tang and CBB will have to be relocated. Personally, I'd recommend it be done sooner then later, but I do not regard this as impending "doom."
Would I keep this tank? I think I've sufficiently answered this question above.
Without knowing the exact dimensions of a 56 gallon, yes, I believe a small (<3") yellow tang can fare well in a tank of that volume. If it's 42" in length as you mentioned, I honestly don't see a reason why one can't be kept for an extended period of time (several years) before having to give it up to a bigger tank. I've seen small tangs do well in 60 gallon tanks and in 48" tanks such as mine, so I see no reason why a 56 gallon is not a possiblity. As stated, however, I don't recall the exact dimensions of a 56 corner so I'm open to rebuke. Note: Tangs definitely do a lot better in larger tanks. But this is true of most fish.
I do not recommend Mandarins for newly established tanks and in most cases, without a refugium. This is not to say the latter can't be done, but it's simply healthier if you run a refugium for a display tank that houses Mandarins. There are a few Mandarins reported to eat prepared foods, but I wouldn't count on it as it is rare IME. To be honest, I usually steer people away from Mandarins altogether unless the tank is very big (>180 gallons).
Depending on the sizes of the specimens, I think the current stock level may be acceptable (with the exception of the Mandarin, assuming the tank is new as you suggest). His tank is not "doomed" as you put it, and - no offense intended - I think you do everyone a disservice with such dramatic negativity. Certainly sooner or later, the tang and CBB will have to be relocated. Personally, I'd recommend it be done sooner then later, but I do not regard this as impending "doom."
Would I keep this tank? I think I've sufficiently answered this question above.
Thanks GratefulDiver.
We are all here for one reason, to give the life under our care the best and most successful living environment possible.
I truly think it adds insult to injury when it takes this many posts by this many posters (including an administrator) for someone to waive the white flag and say
"hold up, something is not right here"
But like I have previously communicated to Len by email , I truly feel that some of the mods here rather have a warm fuzzy community where everyone pats each other on the back then a community with people like myself waving the bullcrap flag when need be.
And len you are failing to realize that yes the tank might be 3.5 feet long ( I can not say because I am unsure of the manufacturer), but that is tip to tip and not side to side. Remember this is a corner tank. And actually a AGA 54 corner is only 39" long. Do you really want to recommend a tang for a tank this size?
Len do you recommend a novice aquarist to keep a CBB?
We are all here for one reason, to give the life under our care the best and most successful living environment possible.
I truly think it adds insult to injury when it takes this many posts by this many posters (including an administrator) for someone to waive the white flag and say
"hold up, something is not right here"
But like I have previously communicated to Len by email , I truly feel that some of the mods here rather have a warm fuzzy community where everyone pats each other on the back then a community with people like myself waving the bullcrap flag when need be.
And len you are failing to realize that yes the tank might be 3.5 feet long ( I can not say because I am unsure of the manufacturer), but that is tip to tip and not side to side. Remember this is a corner tank. And actually a AGA 54 corner is only 39" long. Do you really want to recommend a tang for a tank this size?
Len do you recommend a novice aquarist to keep a CBB?
Zoofarmer,
The mods aren't interested in fostering a community that pats each other on the back with bad information. But we are definitely interested in friendly, respectful discussions. IMO, you keep failing to understand that you can be honest without being hostile or rude. That's the main point I'm trying to convey to you. People will heed your advice better if you don't offer them in a negative or disrespectful manner.
Considering the dimensions, I wouldn't recommend one keep a tang in a 56 gallon. A small tang could live well in there for an extended period of time, but without doubt it will outgrow the tank eventually. Relocation is usually an uncoordinated affair, so might as well buy fish that can live their entire lives in your tank. The same goes for a CBB. FWIW, I've kept 2 CBB's in the past 15 years and both were hardy in my tanks. I understand that some do not readily feed and this is my primary reservation in recommending this species to anyone, especially beginners.
The mods aren't interested in fostering a community that pats each other on the back with bad information. But we are definitely interested in friendly, respectful discussions. IMO, you keep failing to understand that you can be honest without being hostile or rude. That's the main point I'm trying to convey to you. People will heed your advice better if you don't offer them in a negative or disrespectful manner.
Considering the dimensions, I wouldn't recommend one keep a tang in a 56 gallon. A small tang could live well in there for an extended period of time, but without doubt it will outgrow the tank eventually. Relocation is usually an uncoordinated affair, so might as well buy fish that can live their entire lives in your tank. The same goes for a CBB. FWIW, I've kept 2 CBB's in the past 15 years and both were hardy in my tanks. I understand that some do not readily feed and this is my primary reservation in recommending this species to anyone, especially beginners.
So basically Len you agreed with everything I said, just not the way I have said it.
But here is something to think about. Perhaps if you pussyfoot around the obvious, that this tank is doomed, maybe the owner does not make the proper changes to save the fish.
I was nice but firm when I told him the TRUTH that his tank is doomed.
Call me an a**hole but just save the fish.
BTW in my original post that has got you in a tizzy I said
"try not to be mean"
"sorry"
and
"good luck"
where was I wrong this time? And PLEASE be specific.
But here is something to think about. Perhaps if you pussyfoot around the obvious, that this tank is doomed, maybe the owner does not make the proper changes to save the fish.
I was nice but firm when I told him the TRUTH that his tank is doomed.
Call me an a**hole but just save the fish.
BTW in my original post that has got you in a tizzy I said
"try not to be mean"
"sorry"
and
"good luck"
where was I wrong this time? And PLEASE be specific.
Your entire last post was an example of what I'm referring to. You were unnecessarily confrontational and hostile. There is always an undertone of condescension and an overtone of arrogance in your posts; these are usually immediate turn offs for readers and is counterproductive to your desire of making others heed your advice. What good is good advice if people don't want to listen to anything you say because of the way you say it?
Yes, we're in general agreement about your advice. As others have stated, it's usually not what you say, but how you say it that we find disagreeable.
Yes, we're in general agreement about your advice. As others have stated, it's usually not what you say, but how you say it that we find disagreeable.
Wow...I appreciate everyone's concern, sincerity and feedback. Given all the action on this thread, let me provide some additional information.
Yes, it's a 56 (or maybe it's 54) corner tank, by All Glass. The tang is small. All the fish, mandarin included, have done well from inception. The tang and mandarin I have had for 4 months, the butterfly about 2 months. The butterfly adapted to a nice variety diet. So, if there's a silver lining here, I think they are all doing well, at least for now, and maybe as I learn more and as future needs require, I will move some to a larger tank.
The tank has, I think, lots of excellent equipment, live rock, live sand, etc., and I do regular water changes. It is my first experience with saltwater, and though I was probably misled by LFS and perhaps could have done more advance research, hopefully it is manageable.
As it happens, I did get the butterfly from a MAC member store...in fact a seemingly highly reputable NJ destination retailer. That was not the LFS that I was dealing with originally with the setup and the other fish, etc.
In terms of what's right, ethics, and so forth, I want to do well by the livestock and approach the hobby in a caring and responsible manner. At the same time, these things are always judgmental and relative. When I see loads of fish, already overstocked and at risk, I would think, in LFS tanks, I am inclined to think that the fish may feel less "doomed" in my tank.
Anyway, as it happens, I didn't take the doom and other comments as offensive; actually, found them kind of humorous (but serious and sincere). But I could see that they could be felt as harsh, so the constructive comments of others about that are also good advice.
Thanks again, to all.
Yes, it's a 56 (or maybe it's 54) corner tank, by All Glass. The tang is small. All the fish, mandarin included, have done well from inception. The tang and mandarin I have had for 4 months, the butterfly about 2 months. The butterfly adapted to a nice variety diet. So, if there's a silver lining here, I think they are all doing well, at least for now, and maybe as I learn more and as future needs require, I will move some to a larger tank.
The tank has, I think, lots of excellent equipment, live rock, live sand, etc., and I do regular water changes. It is my first experience with saltwater, and though I was probably misled by LFS and perhaps could have done more advance research, hopefully it is manageable.
As it happens, I did get the butterfly from a MAC member store...in fact a seemingly highly reputable NJ destination retailer. That was not the LFS that I was dealing with originally with the setup and the other fish, etc.
In terms of what's right, ethics, and so forth, I want to do well by the livestock and approach the hobby in a caring and responsible manner. At the same time, these things are always judgmental and relative. When I see loads of fish, already overstocked and at risk, I would think, in LFS tanks, I am inclined to think that the fish may feel less "doomed" in my tank.
Anyway, as it happens, I didn't take the doom and other comments as offensive; actually, found them kind of humorous (but serious and sincere). But I could see that they could be felt as harsh, so the constructive comments of others about that are also good advice.
Thanks again, to all.
Okay Len my last post was horrible, lets just say that this post is horrible also. My question was and still is of my first post in which I used the words
"try not to be mean"
"sorry"
and
"good luck"
where was I wrong this time? And PLEASE be specific.
105man when you say the tang is small what is that in inches? And I have been meaning to post this information for some time now:
Out of all the Tangs I have ever observed I find they grow quickest when young. Whether it be a chevron, sailfin, or vlamangi, they all grow at a faster rate when young. The best part about young small tangs are they are cheap, easy to keep, easy to adapt, and easy to get to eat a variety of prepared foods. In fact they eat anything and everything which increases their growth rate dramatically. It takes nearly no time for a 1" Tang to get to 3 " but tanks a much much longer time for a 5" Tang to get to 6". And unless you have observed this like I have you might not realize it. Especially when putting a Tang in a small tank in which it will outgrow. And a cramped fish is almost always an unhappy fish which is almost always an aggressive fish.
You Can have a large or even huge tank 2-400 gallons. The tank could be mature and successful for years. But keep in mind that tank can also be 1 fish away from disaster. There is always a pecking order and there is always territories. Add a fish to change that and then you get the snowball effect.
"try not to be mean"
"sorry"
and
"good luck"
where was I wrong this time? And PLEASE be specific.
105man when you say the tang is small what is that in inches? And I have been meaning to post this information for some time now:
Out of all the Tangs I have ever observed I find they grow quickest when young. Whether it be a chevron, sailfin, or vlamangi, they all grow at a faster rate when young. The best part about young small tangs are they are cheap, easy to keep, easy to adapt, and easy to get to eat a variety of prepared foods. In fact they eat anything and everything which increases their growth rate dramatically. It takes nearly no time for a 1" Tang to get to 3 " but tanks a much much longer time for a 5" Tang to get to 6". And unless you have observed this like I have you might not realize it. Especially when putting a Tang in a small tank in which it will outgrow. And a cramped fish is almost always an unhappy fish which is almost always an aggressive fish.
You Can have a large or even huge tank 2-400 gallons. The tank could be mature and successful for years. But keep in mind that tank can also be 1 fish away from disaster. There is always a pecking order and there is always territories. Add a fish to change that and then you get the snowball effect.
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