Small fish suggestions for reef

[TheZooFarmer]

Len another question

when someoene goes on a thread like this and they make the post

"anything is possible"

how does this help and contribute to the community you are trying to build and help prosper?

Would you call this post/behavior helpful/beneficial or worthless/meaningless?

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW: When I said "doom" I didn't mean today, tomorrow or even next week... I meant like Zoo and Len both pointed out that that tang is gonna grow fast and that 50-some-odd gallons just isn't enough space for the long-term health of what's in there..

Good deal 105, sounds like you have a solid plan and are approaching this with a level head.

One question thought, did the MAC shop that sold you the CBB ask you anything about your setup?

 

[Anonymous]

105, honestly, I think the very best thing(s) you could do right now would be to first purchase a few books (look for authors such as Calfo, Sprung, Bornemann (sp?), Moe.. this is hardly complete) and make some very good reading of them. I am wont to strongly suggest "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Bob Fenner for you, as I think it would be quite pertinent for a beginner as yourself.

The next best thing you can do is to set up a refugium, in my honest opinion. Whether or not you ultimately keep the mandarin (or any of the other fishes for that matter), a 'fuge with a DSB is an excellent means of natural filtration. It is also an excellent means of providing nutrient export and many of the small creatures your filter feeders and "pod" feeders need to thrive.

 

[Len]

Zoo,
My original post was not directed at your first post in this thread; it is one of your more cordial posts and I commend you on trying to be more civil then you've been in the past. My original post was primarily in regards to your condescending responses to Seamaiden, and to be honest, was also based in a no small part on your posting history in Reefs.org. There has also been numerous private messages in regards to your behavior that prompted my post. I simply wanted to reiterate to you our community's esteemed value for civil discourse. I think you've made positive strides lately to be more respectful and friendly, and I encourage you to continue this progression.

I don't really have an answer to your question about wrasser's post as I do not understand what his statement is in reference to. FWIW, light-hearted banter is perfectly welcomed in our community. A good community is not only made of up intellectual dialogue, but also social dialogue amongst peers.

 

[105man]

Thanks, again.

I have read the Fenner book (Conscientious Marine Aquarist, I think it is), as well as the Paletta book (New Marine Aquarium). Coincidentally, I met Paletta at a Marine hobbyist day sponsored at the New York Aquarium in Brooklyn recently. Which also relates to the MAC and LFS query; MAC was there, and likewise the dealer I had previously purchased the butterfly from.

I don't recall discussing the size of my tank with that dealer when purchasing the butterfly...I remember mentioning the other fish, but not sure they or I made a point of focusing on tank size.

The tang is, Id say, 2 1/2 to 3 inches. It has grown since I first purchased it. The LFS served it up as a hardy starter fish, sort of an alternative to damsels which have, I guess, other negatives in terms of what you want to later do with the tank. Having my young teenage son with me also causes some pressure to take chances, even if I had known better!

 

[Anonymous]

social dialogue amongst peers

<snort>

:lol:

Better lock that thread Len, I've had requests and material sent to me asking to be posted and you KNOW my finger is just twitchin.. :wink: You know which one I mean.......

 

[Anonymous]

You do realize you could be suffering the first demonstrations of alien hand syndrome, right GD? :lol: (Actually, that's not funny, it could be a real nightmare if you really think about it.)

 

[fishfanatic2]

I stand and watch as it goes back and forth... :twisted: :!: 8O

OK, I have a question for 105man that deals wiht his original question:

105man, what kind of filtration/skimming do you have? How much LR, what kind of sand, sump or not, refuge?

I'm just trying to get a feel for what he has here, because I think what he plans is possible with the right setup.

 

[TheZooFarmer]

post away

 

[Anonymous]

I don't see anything wrong with having the Tang or CBB in the tank at this time. So long as the CBB is eating prepared food, which you should ensure before buying it, I think it fine. The Tang will eventually outgrow the tank, but it is fine for now. Hopefully you can find someone to buy it or move to a larger tank when that time comes. You probably shouldn't have bought the mandarin. Is it eating prepared foods? If not perhaps you should think about letting someone with a bigger tank and larger population of pods look after it.
I think firefish would be a great addition to your tank, but beware as they can be jumpers.
I certainly don't think your tank is "doomed", some people go a bit overboard with these things. Remember to take your time setting up your tank and do lots of research on the needs of the animals in your care.

 

[105man]

I took another look at the tang last night and would say it is 2 1/2 inches.

Tank has a lot of live rock; don't remember how many pounds, but it's in the range(s) of what Ive read and heard is ideal. Live sand...maybe Arag-Alive or something like that. Fluval canister 403 (or maybe it's 404?). A highly rated UV light (don't recall the brand). Seaclone skimmer (I realize that's not highly regarded). No refuge. Two Rio 600 powerheads.

I test for PH, Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, Calcium, Alk, salinity, and maybe a couple of other things. Tests have basically been right on the money, although calcium is a bit low and alk a bit high.

I add B-Ionic two-part calcium, but recently have just been adding the calc, not the alk. Also add iodine once a week.

Corals are all hardy, easy softies. Have various algae critters and a blood shrimp.

I am surprised to learn of all the concern around the mandarin fish. This may be naive, but let me ask whether this is the same fish we are talking about. Mine is the little psychedelic looking fish that sort of crawls, or flies/swims low near and around the rocks...about 2 inches. It's always seemed to do well, looks healthy, and eats well. If it is the same fish, I didn't realize they had such special needs. Maybe Ive been lucky or maybe, sadly, there'll be problems with it ahead.

Thanks, again, to everyone. I appreciate all the concern and suggestions, as well as the overall enthusiasm and rapport in this community.

 

[Anonymous]

how about a couple cleaner shrimp, they reproduce like crazy.
it can supplement the mandarins diet, take some pressure off
the pod population? i have a mandarin in my 55 thats been there for
a year and a half, i have tons of pods and baby cleaner shrimp in there.
they hatch what looks like a few thousand babies every ten days or so,
and the fish go absolutely nuts trying to eat them. my mandarin always
has a full stomach, and has been healthy, and ive never seen him eat
any prepared foods. i do also have a pod pile in the back corner made
with about 2 or 3 lbs of rubble.

 

[WRASSER]

good post OJ, thanks for the info. :!: :wink:




wrasser 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, O.J., the pod population that the U.V. is killing off.

The issue with the mandarin is not just whether or not it's eating prepared foods, the issue is what nutrition it's getting from them. Much like ribbon eels, they may eat, yet starve because they cannot metabolize the necessary nutrients from what they're eating. They really MUST have those pods and other microfaunal growth. I can say with some certainty that your U.V. is killing this stuff off, and if you were my customer I would nix it immediately. Also, if you set up a 'fuge, the U.V. would kill everything you worked so hard to grow in there.

I strongly suggest researching refugia, as this will end up being your best friend in the long run.

 

[Anonymous]

105man- You win this years "grace under fire" award.

Yes, I believe we are talking about the same mandarin. If it is taking food well and is supplementing its diet from the rock in your tank it could do fine. Just be careful not to introduce any food competitors to the tank when you are looking for other small fish. Look for planktivores, not fish that pick at the rock.

 

[WRASSER]

dan connor,




:? can you give a quick example of each, just for the ones(like me) that don't know what is what.
thanks for your time.



wrasser 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Well, planktivores are any fish that hang out and wait for food to float by are planktivores. Dartfish, midas blenny, clownfish are examples.

Fish that pick at the rock might include 6-line wrasses and many other wrasse species. Dottybacks hunt the rocks, but mostly for bristleworms; I'm not sure if they are significant competitors with a mandarin.

 

[WRASSER]

dan connor,



thanks for the info. i have both a mandarin and a six line. i also have a little over 100lbs. of LR in a 150. i have had the mandarine for about three weeks now and see him quite often picking at the rock and sometimes even the back glass. which dose have a lot of algea on it. my snail trys to keep it down, but can't keep up with it. also i have two green wrasse, yellow wrasse, red coris, and a dragon wrasse. will they compete too. thank you for your time


wrasser 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Len, I don't recall getting the warm reefs.org welcome...although the lovely Sea-Maiden did welcome me here...thanks Sea-Mommy :wink:

It looks like 105man is a responsible and level headed begginner (like me) who has done his reading and is now delving into the wonderful world of the on-line community for help with his captive charges.

The visions of doom expressed here are waranted, but I think that 105 has his tank under control for now. The mandarin is eating, a wonderful stroke of luck that is not as uncommon as many seem to think. And all of the fish have been thriving in his tank for months. Perhapse when they get bigger he will be considering a larger tank....unless predictions of doom and failure turn him off to the whole hobby. :lol:

105man, I was dosing B-ionic and my tank was great for many months, then all of a sudden the alk went sky high and the calcium dropped through the floor...I had snow storms in my tank any time I added the calcium. I have heard that B-ionic will do this after it is regularly dosed for many months. You might want to switch to kalkwasser, which will also be cheaper in the long run. Since I switched my levels have evened out and the problem is gone.

Try a firefish....I absolutely love mine! Flicker the firefish, the only male fish that can wear eyeshadow and not get beat up!

Good Luck

 

[TheZooFarmer]

Keep in mind that I have never heard of a mandarin that stopped eating. There was a recent thread where poeple were saying since the mandarim was eating and it died that it must of been cyanide caught. That was a bad bad thread.

Just because you see the mandarin swimming around and picking does not mean that it is getting enough food to live. All mandarins do is swim around and pick. All day and night they do this so just witnessing this behavior is not proof of success. You can go to any LFS and witness starving mandarins acting this same way.