FOWLER

[Anonymous]

This may be a nano-question, so I'll keep it short.

Have a 27g hex with nothin' in it. Would like to make it a FOWLER.

Is the H.O.T. Magnum (250 GPH) that I used when it was a FW tank be enough circulation? Do I need a skimmer if I keep the bioload low?

I will of course take all the media out of the filter and replace it with LR rubble. Please don't tell me to drill and add a sump. I just don't feel like it :wink:

Live stock
1) Flame Angel + Misc.
or
2)Pair of Maroon Clowns
or
3) Few firefish + clown gobies

The only other intent I have is to save some of the baby snails that I am finding in my 90g reef downstairs.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Anonymous]

I keep a 10 gallon without a skimmer, and a fairly small bioload. I run carbon 3 days a week and do weekly 20% water changes. The system is healthy.
well.. the algae cycle is still marching along, but it gets taken care of as it arises.

For a 20 gallon... Mebee you might want a skimmer, but it can be done without it In my humble opinion

 

[keethrax]

For a 20 gallon... Mebee you might want a skimmer, but it can be done without it In my humble opinion

He's pushing 30 gallons though. At that point I'd add a skimmer. They're not *that* expensive and will allow you a slightly more relaxed maintenance schedule.

You could still do without one (as long as you keep thebioload low like you said) but having one will make your life easier and in the long term the cost isnt' that high. For me it would be worht it for the added peace of mind the highly oxygenated water coming out of the skimmer provides.

Being a hex tank though, there may logistical issues if you have a hang on filter, and want a hang on skimmer, depending on how many sides you're willing to hang stuff from.

To recap: I agree you don't need one, but an inexpensive hang on skimmer would add a lot of peace of mind for not a lot of extra cost.

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to see as little equiptment as possible. Guess I could invest in an HOB skimmer and a powerhead?

Just trying to make as little investment as possible!

 

[Anonymous]

You never, ever NEED a skimmer. Ever. I kept tanks for 15 years without a skimmer,and had huge bioloads. We never even considered using skimmers on fish tanks back then. I use them now of course, but on a tank that size I wouldn't bother. Just keep up with your water changes.

Jim

 

[Anonymous]

That is what I love about the internet...
Wait around long enough and you'll eventually hear what you want to hear.

But Jim what is keeping up with water changes?
is 20-30% every month ok?

This is going to be another thing I have to learn by trial and error isn't i?

 

[keethrax]

You never, ever NEED a skimmer. Ever. I kept tanks for 15 years without a skimmer,and had huge bioloads. We never even considered using skimmers on fish tanks back then. I use them now of course, but on a tank that size I wouldn't bother. Just keep up with your water changes.

Jim

Sure but the increased water changes will quickly eat away at the savings gained by not putting on a skimmer. And the increased water change schedule will be more work than the skimmer maintenance.

I'd put on on anythign 20 gallons and up that it could be put on wihtout being too much hassle. The cost really isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned, it will be made up for in salt mix and maintnenace time. I'd even put one on a smaller tank if I could get away with it, but practical issues often make this not worth it.

Like you said though, you certainly don't *need* one, especially not on a smaller tank (where a 20-30% water change isn't a scary prospect).

Without one, I'd personally shoot for water changes every two weeks at the longest, probably 20-25% but that's mainly becasue I have a bunch of 6.5 gallon buckets so 6 gallons is about what I'd change. If the bio load ended up higher than anticipated (and somehow mine always do...) I'd probably bump that up to weekly.

With a skimmer I'd do the same thing every month or so. And I'd feel safer having the extra oxygenation if my water movement was possibly a bit low.

 

[Anonymous]

That is what I love about the internet...
Wait around long enough and you'll eventually hear what you want to hear.

But Jim what is keeping up with water changes?
is 20-30% every month ok?

This is going to be another thing I have to learn by trial and error isn't i?

While conceding some of Keethrax's points, I would say it depends on your bioload. It could be 30% a month or more. I had a tank that needed 50% every other week. This was a heavily loaded 135 gallon. This was back in the day of undergravel filters and no live rock in FO tanks though. With live rock, you can go longer.

Jim

 

[keethrax]

While conceding some of Keethrax's points, I would say it depends on your bioload. It could be 30% a month or more. I had a tank that needed 50% every other week. This was a heavily loaded 135 gallon. This was back in the day of undergravel filters and no live rock in FO tanks though. With live rock, you can go longer.

Jim

Yep, like I said, my volume was picked because that's what I'd change. And my reasoning was due to available containers as opposed to something more realted to the actual tank itself.

Amount and scheduling of water changes has so many variables that it really comes down to finding what works and keeping up with it. more than anything else.

I'm personally of the more smaller changes more often school, but if you go that way you have to realize that two 15% changes every other week is *not* as effective as one 30% change every month. In the end I change more water than the people doing larger changes, in order to get a similar dilution rate, but my chemistry is more stable because the individual chages are less drastic.

It's all a balance between a) the need to export and dilute undesirable substances b) the cost/hassle associated with a change and c) the stability of the system.

Finding that balance is specific to the tank and the person doign the maintenance.

 

[Anonymous]

I can see that point (about more frequent smaller water changes) When I do a water change, the first day everything in the tank is unhappy with me, with the exception of the damsel, who seems to enjoy it.

 

[keethrax]

I can see that point (about more frequent smaller water changes) When I do a water change, the first day everything in the tank is unhappy with me, with the exception of the damsel, who seems to enjoy it.

If you do it, just remember that you end up needing to change more water. 2 10% changes are not as effeective as one 20% change. So you need to go with 3-4 10% changes over the same time period. I'm not suggesting 10%, just used that as an example.

Some things really like the bigger changes, like your damsel for instance. I know big changes have triggered spawns in some of my freshwater stuff, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

The small changes works towards keeping a more stable level of certain components of the sewater (like Ca for example) with smaller variations over time if you're relying on water changes to maintian those levels.

 

[Anonymous]

CAn anyone recomend a small skimmer that would work in a 27 hex without being an eyesore?

Also relizing that there is little hang on room.

Maybey I should just keep in FW....

 

[keethrax]

CAn anyone recomend a small skimmer that would work in a 27 hex without being an eyesore?

Also relizing that there is little hang on room.

Maybey I should just keep in FW....

What length are the sides on the tank?

 

[Anonymous]

An AquaC or a CPR Bakpak would be the two to consider, imo.

 

[Anonymous]

An AquaC or a CPR Bakpak would be the two to consider, imo.

I would go for the CPR BAK PAC 2 because of the Bio Filter. Reasonable price two. OK......can I go back to the Sump now Len?

 

[keethrax]

An AquaC or a CPR Bakpak would be the two to consider, imo.

I would go for the CPR BAK PAC 2 because of the Bio Filter. Reasonable price two. OK......can I go back to the Sump now Len?

With the live rock in the tank, the bio filter stuff shouldn't be necesary. I'd go with the 2R, but either should be just fine.

 

[Anonymous]

An AquaC or a CPR Bakpak would be the two to consider, imo.

I would go for the CPR BAK PAC 2 because of the Bio Filter. Reasonable price two. OK......can I go back to the Sump now Len?

With the live rock in the tank, the bio filter stuff shouldn't be necesary. I'd go with the 2R, but either should be just fine.

My methos is....The Redundant Filtration Method. It has worked for me for a long time. I use less live rock than most because I want more water in my system to dilute the bad stuff and provide more swimming room. I have not done a water change in over a year in my 100 gallon(just top offswith my well water) and I use half the recommended amount of live rock. Power filter,live rock,good 2-three inches of sand bed,a protien skimmer,and a few Turbos and a Fighting Conch. Works for me. Keeping a marine aquarium is easier than most think. More people should do it.

 

[keethrax]

With the live rock in the tank, the bio filter stuff shouldn't be necesary. I'd go with the 2R, but either should be just fine.

My methos is....The Redundant Filtration Method. It has worked for me for a long time. I use less live rock than most because I want more water in my system to dilute the bad stuff and provide more swimming room. I have not done a water change in over a year in my 100 gallon(just top offswith my well water) and I use half the recommended amount of live rock. Power filter,live rock,good 2-three inches of sand bed,a protien skimmer,and a few Turbos and a Fighting Conch. Works for me. Keeping a marine aquarium is easier than most think. More people should do it.[/quote]

Sure, and that's why I said either should work. And as it's bascially a fish only tank, the extra nitrate potential shouldn't be a problem. (with the sixe of the CPR unit, I doubt it would matter much even in tanks with sensitive critters, it's not like a monster big Wet/Dry like so many pet stores want to sell.)

But really live rock is pretty darn effective, and even just using that you could probably get away with 1/3 to 1/2 of what most people recommend with no problems even without any extra filtration, and even less than that in this case as the bioload should be light.

Redundancy is good, but I don't think you really need a backup to LR. If your LR stops functioning that badly, something has gone *terribly* wrong, and odds are your filter will have crashed too.

So in your case I suspect the LR may provide backup to the power filter, but I doubt the power filter provides much backup to the LR. anything that impacts the bacteria population that severley in the live rock is bound to knock out the population in the power filter too.

On the other hand, if the power filter fails (pump fialure for example) the LR will provide a backup in that case.

 

[Chris A H]

I'd put a skimmer on no matter what. I personally like the extra O2 in the water.

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

Re: fish choices, go with #1.

Flames are very cool, and will allow you other fish. A pair of maroons is pushing the bioload in a 27 in my opinion. I used to have a pair in a 30 for two years--they never spawned. Within a week of being moved into a much larger tank, they started spawning.

If you haven't already seen it, check out the sticky in the Nanos forum. It's a WIP, but it should help.