Mantis vs. Pistol

[chockablock]

Understood, however the question is who would win, not if they could co-habitate

oooohh..

well, that should teach me to pay better attention!


.. on equal sized specimens, my money is on the mantis, Especially if the pistol is added to the tank after the mantis.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree..

 

[chockablock]

btw. i caught my arrowcrab eating my xenia. :evil:


... so of course i had no choice but to let my peacock give him a court marshalling.

















... and yes, i got it on video.

 

[tazdevil]

Where's the video?

 

[nice1bruva]

btw. i caught my arrowcrab eating my xenia. :evil:


... so of course i had no choice but to let my peacock give him a court marshalling.


















... and yes, i got it on video.

as much as this thread started really interesting i felt the comments above are no diferent from 'pen hunting'

not trying to dis you chockablock but unless that was a joke .....its not only cruel but also a bad advertisment for our hobby.
in the wild this would be fair game but dont play god with your livestock.
:wink:

 

[chockablock]

btw. i caught my arrowcrab eating my xenia. :evil:


... so of course i had no choice but to let my peacock give him a court marshalling.


















... and yes, i got it on video.

as much as this thread started really interesting i fell the comments above are no diferent from 'pen hunting'

not trying to dis you chockablock but unless that was a joke .....its not only cruel but also a bad advertisment for our hobby.
in the wild this would be fair game but dont play god with your livestock.
:wink:

I bought the arrow crab with the intention that if it started to bug my corals it would become mantis food. Is it less cruel to let my corals fall prey to the crab? or rather is it less cruel to deny my mantis its god given right to be a bad ass predator whos natural instinct is to feed on live organisms?.

with that said, i only offer my stomatopods live foods twice a month, and the rest of the time i feed them nutritionally complete prepared foods.

 

[chockablock]

Where's the video?

on my camcorder.. i have to capture it and edit it.. expect it online at the end of this week. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

All is fair..both have valid points, i dare not venture to either side (chockablock and nice1bruva)... I imagine the O. Scyllarus made a quick meal of him however you coulda sent me the arrow, i need my xenia trimmed :wink: <or does that fall under playing god?>

 

[nice1bruva]

btw. i caught my arrowcrab eating my xenia. :evil:


... so of course i had no choice but to let my peacock give him a court marshalling.


















... and yes, i got it on video.

as much as this thread started really interesting i fell the comments above are no diferent from 'pen hunting'

not trying to dis you chockablock but unless that was a joke .....its not only cruel but also a bad advertisment for our hobby.
in the wild this would be fair game but dont play god with your livestock.
:wink:

I bought the arrow crab with the intention that if it started to bug my corals it would become mantis food. Is it less cruel to let my corals fall prey to the crab? or rather is it less cruel to deny my mantis its god given right to be a bad ass predator whos natural instinct is to feed on live organisms?.

with that said, i only offer my stomatopods live foods twice a month, and the rest of the time i feed them nutritionally complete prepared foods.

which ever way you look at it......and i am not starting a war here....leaving an arrowhead in a confined area with a predator as well equipped as a mantis is no diferent to cock fighting/dog fighting/pen hunting.
i do take on board your comments regarding the xenia eating...however the xenia will grow back as will most corals that have been nibbled by something with a mouth as small as an arrowhead crab.
i would have a xenia eating arrowhead in a shot...damn stuff grows like weed in my system.
.....the arrowhead however will not rise from the dead like xenia.


sorry but my idea of reef keeping is to not sacrifice animals for eating their natural diet.even though the mantis may eat crabs as it's natural diet...the crab has a chance to escape in a natural enviroment.
corals face the same risks in an open reef as they do in the aquarium because on the whole they cannot move away from danger.
the worse case scenario with your xenia is the fact that the crab would have pruned it for you....and it will not overgrow your other corals.
:roll:

 

[chockablock]

btw. i caught my arrowcrab eating my xenia. :evil:


... so of course i had no choice but to let my peacock give him a court marshalling.


















... and yes, i got it on video.

as much as this thread started really interesting i fell the comments above are no diferent from 'pen hunting'

not trying to dis you chockablock but unless that was a joke .....its not only cruel but also a bad advertisment for our hobby.
in the wild this would be fair game but dont play god with your livestock.
:wink:

I bought the arrow crab with the intention that if it started to bug my corals it would become mantis food. Is it less cruel to let my corals fall prey to the crab? or rather is it less cruel to deny my mantis its god given right to be a bad ass predator whos natural instinct is to feed on live organisms?.

with that said, i only offer my stomatopods live foods twice a month, and the rest of the time i feed them nutritionally complete prepared foods.

which ever way you look at it......and i am not starting a war here....leaving an arrowhead in a confined area with a predator as well equipped as a mantis is no diferent to cock fighting/dog fighting/pen hunting.
i do take on board your comments regarding the xenia eating...however the xenia will grow back as will most corals that have been nibbled by something with a mouth as small as an arrowhead crab.
i would have a xenia eating arrowhead in a shot...damn stuff grows like weed in my system.
.....the arrowhead however will not rise from the dead like xenia.


sorry but my idea of reef keeping is to not sacrifice animals for eating their natural diet.even though the mantis may eat crabs as it's natural diet...the crab has a chance to escape in a natural enviroment.
corals face the same risks in an open reef as they do in the aquarium because on the whole they cannot move away from danger.
the worse case scenario with your xenia is the fact that the crab would have pruned it for you....and it will not overgrow your other corals.
:roll:

fair enough. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

However, not to keep it going, feeding live animals to another can be compared to cock fighting..only cockfighting, its a fair match to a degree..only difference is, is who is the more aggessive or better trained...i noticed chockablock feeds his mantis live food, i guess one could argue thats the food chain regardless of confinement...I do understand both sides of the argument and can see where ethics is teetering on the balance of a see saw... I feed my cichlids live guppies once a week, i hate considering that to be cruel and unusual...In a sick sense its the balance of life, on the other hand, is it necessary? well to argue this off topic, ive noticed a growth difference and behaviorial difference when i go long periods of time without feeding live foods to my cichlids...id have to say its ok to feed live food as long as you are not doing it with the purpose of sick torture...

 

[nice1bruva]

thank you chocoblock for not sparring with me.
i hope all members realise that i am not picking fights here but only thinking of the animals best interests.
peace.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm gonna spar, because you offered an unsolicited moral condescention, and I find that rather ... unsavory.

I have regularly sentenced problem animals to death in predator tanks. It's definitely not a nice thing to do, but humans are capable of rational thought, so here's how I rationalize it, in order of importance.

1. If any of us truly cared for our fish/inverts "happyness" then we would not confine them to small, noisy, dirty, cage-like approximations of the beautiful and diverse ocean from which they were stolen. If we truly cared about them we would let them be free. There is a reason why we call this the "ornamental fish trade" ... it is telling of how humans view animals.

2. I sentenced a blue leg hermit to death in my mantis tank for repeatedly knocking over and killing my corals. What is the difference between feeding my mantis nassy snails and a blue leg hermit? Only about $20 LOL

3. Would inaction be more cruel? When I was big into FW fish I used to sentence problem fish to become food for my electric blue crayfish. In one case, I made an ill-advised purchase and a blue botia loach killed seven of my fish in one night. If I had not removed the botia, more fish blood would be on my hands. The bonus is that the botia loach became useful as food.

/end

 

[nice1bruva]

I'm gonna spar, because you offered an unsolicited moral condescention, and I find that rather ... unsavory.

I have regularly sentenced problem animals to death in predator tanks. It's definitely not a nice thing to do, but humans are capable of rational thought, so here's how I rationalize it, in order of importance.

1. If any of us truly cared for our fish/inverts "happyness" then we would not confine them to small, noisy, dirty, cage-like approximations of the beautiful and diverse ocean from which they were stolen. If we truly cared about them we would let them be free. There is a reason why we call this the "ornamental fish trade" ... it is telling of how humans view animals.

2. I sentenced a blue leg hermit to death in my mantis tank for repeatedly knocking over and killing my corals. What is the difference between feeding my mantis nassy snails and a blue leg hermit? Only about $20 LOL

3. Would inaction be more cruel? When I was big into FW fish I used to sentence problem fish to become food for my electric blue crayfish. In one case, I made an ill-advised purchase and a blue botia loach killed seven of my fish in one night. If I had not removed the botia, more fish blood would be on my hands. The bonus is that the botia loach became useful as food.

/end

your entitled to your opinion hwarang....but i thought we were talking about xenia here??
:roll:
pick a fight if you choose....not really bothered either way as my comments were put to chockoblock.


ps."happyness" is spelt happiness
:roll:

 

[Anonymous]

It's sort of funny that YOU come here and pick a fight but aren't willing to defend your opinion. You just wanted to extend a quick chiding to someone else and don't want any lip back.

Nice.

*shrug*

 

[nice1bruva]

It's sort of funny that YOU come here and pick a fight but aren't willing to defend your opinion. You just wanted to extend a quick chiding to someone else and don't want any lip back.

Nice.

*shrug*

picking a fight and defending the rights of an animal that someone has chosen to keep in captivity is in two diferent ball parks.
i will always defend animal with no control over it's own enviroment.

as you quite rightly wrote in your first round with myself...we chose to take these animals out of the oceans and keep them in 'dirty' boxes etc...
don't know about you hwrang but i spend a great deal of time,money and effort maintaining my reef.
eg. i have not added any livestock for a while as i was not happy with high (15ppm) nitrate levels and reasonably high phosphate (0.5ppm) levels my tank had.
i concentrated my time,effort and a lot of cash to sort these issues and i am now at a stage where i feel happy to add more corals.
fwiw it is a lot more expensive to buy high quality reef keeping hardware in the uk.
rightly or wrongly i chose to keep marine life in a 'clean' box.
am i wrong in thinking you do not have a reef??
if you do, then i see your comments in your first attack on me very strange,considering your idea on reef keeping.
my parting comment is the fact that i see keeping reefs as a way of preserving life. i dont keep my animals on the green mile only to put them in the chair for the crime of xenia eating.
get real.

 

[Anonymous]

i have several captive reefs. I have kept all types of FW and SW creatures. I have bred and raised high maintenance or rare fishes. I've mastered planted aquarium gardens, koi ponds and other stuff. i pride myself on maintaining them to meticulous standards to the best of my ability. I like to joke w/ my friends that they would probably be better off drinking water out of my FW planted garden than what comes out of the faucet.

But still, they are nothing compared to the ocean. Poor approximations supported by artifice and mechanical crutches.

...

I guess the reason I am arguing is because you wanted to scold someone, but don't welcome reciprocation or open discussion.

Anyhow, here you are discussing it

 

[nice1bruva]

you got me all wrong...

i am NOT a hot-headed lunatic that attacks people at random...on bulletin boards or in real life.
scolding choc' was not my intention...
i am simply a very strong willed person that detests any cruelty to animals/marine life in any form.
i will fight to the bitter end if i feel an animal is mistreated in any way.
this industry/hobby faces enough opposition from those that oppose it. reading the earlier comments was virtually giving away ammunition to fire at US.

my idea of fun is to read this board daily to gain knowledge on keeping my fish and corals....not to get involved in arguments/discussions that turn sour.
can you admit in all honesty that the arrowhead situation adds anything to this board that is positive?

i may have gone in heavy handed..i aggree...but who else can talk for the dead arrowhead.

in regards to the 'arguing'...i do a job that numbs me too it. i get verbally abused daily and regularly attacked...doesn't really bother me as you learn to 'deal' with it...besides..i get worse on the rugby field.
any chance of dropping this subject now as i feel it is bad for the board in general.
feel free to carry on but i have said my bit and stand by every word.

 

[Anonymous]

Does this forum have a mod yet??

 

[Anonymous]

can you admit in all honesty that the arrowhead situation adds anything to this board that is positive?

It became food. Also, it became entertainment for its owners, which I think is a valid thing and not a moral trespass. If you read back, my logic is that we don't truly care for the fish/inverts happIness, if we did, we would not keep them captive. Thus, we do it for the sake of entertainment. Feeding one organism to another is quite common. I'd like to see you start a post about all the krill shrimp or silversides that have been fed to countless other fish.

in regards to the 'arguing'...i do a job that numbs me too it.

it appears we have something in common

besides..i get worse on the rugby field.

or on the dojang mat. with that, i'm done too.


peas,
-me