Hey beaslbob!

[Anonymous]

Do you recommend skimming when you use plants as a filtration?

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

Do you recommend skimming when you use plants as a filtration?

~wings~

Actually I never recommend skimming. Much better to spend the money on a larger system to start off with. Simmers can and do have failures and require maintenance.

BTW I recommend plant life as opposed to plants. Just a nit but there are few true marine plants and from what I understand the true marine plants are very slow growing. But plant life also includes hair algae, corraline algae plus chaeto, halimeda, caulperas and so on. As I said just a nit.

 

[Garry thomas]

This is avery contraversial subject! Calerpa/algy is an excellant nutriant export but i still feel that a skimmer will do more good than cause any harm.

 

[Ben1]

Simmers can and do whave failures and require maintenance.

Please explain yourself. I have yet to have a skimmer "fail" how does that happen? The only maintance I do is clean the cup and riser tube once a week and clean the pump once or twice a year, soemthing everyone should do to all thier pumps. Calupera requires it's own maintance...

 

[Anonymous]

Do you recommend skimming when you use plants as a filtration?

~wings~

Actually I never recommend skimming. Much better to spend the money on a larger system to start off with. Simmers can and do whave failures and require maintenance.

Do you have more up-to-date pictures than what you've shown in links previously?

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

Do you recommend skimming when you use plants as a filtration?

~wings~

Actually I never recommend skimming. Much better to spend the money on a larger system to start off with. Simmers can and do whave failures and require maintenance.

Do you have more up-to-date pictures than what you've shown in links previously?

~wings~

Well here is one link: http://www.garf.org/news11p3.html .that is from the inlandaquatics site (a link to the garf site). And far down on that page is:

They have been in business for 3 years. The facility consists of several different systems totaling approximately 35,000 gals. of salt water. Strange as it may sound, I did not see a single protein skimmer! Algal Turf Scrubbers (ATS) are the primary source of filtration. I was told there has not been a water change since the system(s) was started.

...

found it very easy to understand and it is scaled to hobbyist or commercial size.

...

The production area

...

It's a warehouse full of coral and fish. My heart rate seems to increase while in this area.

Corals are kept in five different systems; SPS, LPS, mushroom/zoanthid,soft corals and one with xenia, anthelia, and star polyps. The last system mentioned now has some colonies of pulsing xenia that I propagated in my tank! There is another system dedicated to breeding fish. ... offers a variety of captive bred fish. In one particular tank, there was a pair of clowns cleaning a ceramic flower pot. This ritual is performed just before the female deposits her eggs there. The pot is then put into another tank so the eggs can get lots of aeration to help them hatch out. I don't know a lot about breeding fish, but it looks very interesting.

I do not recommend GARF, Inland Aquatics or any other particular web site.

All I know is my tank is thriving. With little to no maintenance. Will try to get a more updated picture of my particular system. But the 35,000g of production above breeding fish and corals tells a better story.

Obviously skimmers are not necessary.

 

[Anonymous]

Simmers can and do whave failures and require maintenance.

Please explain yourself. I have yet to have a skimmer "fail" how does that happen? The only maintance I do is clean the cup and riser tube once a week and clean the pump once or twice a year, soemthing everyone should do to all thier pumps. Calupera requires it's own maintance...

I would rather harvest some plant life each month then empty skimmer cups, clean pumps, worry about the amount of skimmate, set up the skimmer, have the possibility of floods and so on.

 

[Anonymous]

Be that as it may, I still highly recommend a skimmer.

 

[Anonymous]

All I know is my tank is thriving. With little to know maintenance. Will try to get a more updated picture of my particular system.

Please do. I'd like to see your "success".

Obviously skimmers are not necessary.

Why do people buy them then, if they aren't necessary? Where would all the junk that collects in my skimmer go in my system?

~wings~

 

[Ben1]

Please explain yourself. I have yet to have a skimmer "fail" how does that happen? The only maintance I do is clean the cup and riser tube once a week and clean the pump once or twice a year, soemthing everyone should do to all thier pumps. Calupera requires it's own maintance...


I would rather harvest some plant life each month then empty skimmer cups, clean pumps, worry about the amount of skimmate, set up the skimmer, have the possibility of floods and so on.

That wasnt the question but nice try. ALL pumps should be maintaned, returns, power heads skimmer pumps, refug pumps, ect... Thats is just plain good advice. As far as worrying about the amount of skimmate what does that mean? I never have had that thought? My skimmer turns off if the waste collecter gets filled so can't flood either....so again what are these failures you talk about?

Of course skimmers are not an absolute nessesity, just a solid, time proven method. FWIW, I like the idea of regugiums that you can harvest macros seperately from the main tank. Macros in the main tank usually end up a real PITA when you need the room for coral. Try getting rid of all the grape calurpera from your tank after letting is grow a bit....

 

[Joew]

Beaslbob once again to the rescue, unless you run a softy tank only you will have to do water changes and the such. I think plant life is a whole other world of issues. If your a n00b and want a risk of a sexual nature and have a nutrient export to your tank cuz you got lazy and didn't prune and the like then listen to Bob. If you keep SPS/LPS corals you have to do these things as well as either a 2-part supplement or run a calcium reactor. If not the SPS/LPS will consume what calcium is in the water and eventually become calcium starved. I keep a FOWLR only but it is really common sense if you educate yourself to just do what is tried and true methods. I think a person is on crack if they think they can maintain a 400 Ca level and not run a reactor or 2-parts.

JoeW
_________________
Honda Inspire

 

[Anonymous]

All I know is my tank is thriving. With little to know maintenance. Will try to get a more updated picture of my particular system.

Please do. I'd like to see your "success".

Ok. I am at work so will try when i get time at home.

Obviously skimmers are not necessary.

Why do people buy them then, if they aren't necessary?

I give up why? Because they were told they were "necessary". When I started my current 55g none of the local fish stores told me of marine plant life. They all wanted to sell me $100s worth of filters, skimmer, live rock, live sand and so on. Yet the link above maintains a large production system with no skimmers. And my system started thriving only ofter adding $35 worth of plant life. As local hobbiest here have reported after I gave them Chaeto.

Where would all the junk that collects in my skimmer go in my system?

~wings~

The organics would be reduced by the nitrogen cycle. Then the plant life would consume the carbon dioxide, nitrAtes, ammonia, phosphates to produce the plant life. And in the process filter out toxins.

By establishing a balanced ecosystem, things just run themselves. Anything that interfers with that process to me is counter productive.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I just got rid of my hair algae woes.

I did weekly water changes and changed my skimmer and ran it wet. NO PLANT LIFE.

If a tank is maintained through proper husbandry than plants are NOT a nessesity. They are another form of mutrient export not the neccessary way.
_________________
Mercedes Benz SSK

 

[Anonymous]

They all wanted to sell me $100s worth of filters, skimmer, live rock, live sand and so on .

So, are you saying that LR, and LS are not necessary too?

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

Bob believes that replacing his animals every few months after they die indicates his system is working. The rest of us would be appalled if we had killed that many anumals in just two years.

 

[Anonymous]

Bob believes that replacing his animals every few months indicates his system is working. The rest of us would be appalled if we had killed that many anumals in just two years.

Is this true, beaslbob?

~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

They all wanted to sell me $100s worth of filters, skimmer, live rock, live sand and so on .

So, are you saying that LR, and LS are not necessary too?

~wings~

yes. I use base rock and silica play sand. Again $100s not necessary. For instance, they quarry limestone here. They charge $20/ton. I got 200-300 pounds of the stuff on a saturday morning. (a trunk load). It was about closing time and they didn't even charge me.

With salt systems using algaes as plant life some circulation seems to be beneficial. The plant life is non vascular (no circulation systems) therefore does better if water is flowing around it. But even with that, I had the nitrates in a 20g macro algae tank go from 160PPM to 0.0 in about a moth or so with no circulation, no feeding, no other plant life show up (slime, hair etc), a baby molly grow from 3/16". Just the tank, sand, macros, and the molly, by replacing evaporative water with straight tap. And the water ramained crystal clear.

All my FW since the late 70's just have the tank, sand, plant live and fish. And have been ran for up to 6 years continuous. Water is clear, very very little algae (cleanup twice per year), no filters, no circulation, straight tap water, no water changes. One huge difference with FW is that fast growing vascular plants are available.

 

[Anonymous]

This is one of my favorite Beasl-Quotes:

Yes I did lose three flame anglefish. As I have stated fish were dieing. Those deterioriated and developed ich as the others that died did. Yes I have lost fish. Fish do die in my tanks. Fish will die in the future in my tanks.

He had dozens of similar quote back when he was a newby (two years ago). All of a sudden he has a of decade of experience to draw from. Makes me chuckle every time I see him spout off.

 

[Anonymous]

Freshwater is a walk in the park, we all know that.

With salt systems using algaes as plant life some circulation seems to be beneficial. The plant life is non vascular (no circulation systems) therefore does better if water is flowing around it. But even with that, I had the nitrates in a 20g macro algae tank go from 160PPM to 0.0 in about a moth or so with no circulation, no feeding, no other plant life show up (slime, hair etc), a baby molly grow from 3/16". Just the tank, sand, macros, and the molly, by replacing evaporative water with straight tap. And the water ramained crystal clear.

How to you circulate without the use of a pump? Didn't you say earlier that "I would rather harvest some plant life each month then empty skimmer cups, clean pumps..." Do you still have pumps?

Can you provide us with a large overview picture of your entire system as well? Based on this quote:

I would rather harvest some plant life each month then empty skimmer cups, clean pumps, worry about the amount of skimmate, set up the skimmer, have the possibility of floods and so on.

, I'd like to see how your system is less conducive to flooding than the average person not using your means. Some people's skimmers reside in their sump... don't fully understand where the flooding would occur. Show us what you mean.

Thanks,
~wings~

 

[Anonymous]

Bob believes that replacing his animals every few months indicates his system is working. The rest of us would be appalled if we had killed that many anumals in just two years.

Is this true, beaslbob?

~wings~

No! Guy misrepresents my systems. I had several losses before I added macros to my system. I lost several corals after moving my system and dumping 1/2 my water on the living room carpet.

The truth is I have maintained spawing damsels for over four years in a simple FO system, have had a FW operational for 6 continuous years with descendants from the original two fish, and have not lost a single coral or fish in my current 55g since nitrates went to 0.0 4-6 months ago. And hardies are growing also.

Guy has fish that are 10-15 years old. Although he is converting his 900g lagoon tank to include corals, it was basically a 900g refugium full of plant life. So Guy can not determine if it was the plant life, filtrations, DSB, water conditioning or whatever that allowed those fish to live so long.

But in my systems, it was the addition of plant life and soley the addition of plant life that allowed the fish and corals to live for years and years. I can say that because I added plant life and only added plant life. Not changed 20 things to correct the problems.