Ceramic clay Live rock: what are your thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Brother you had better read a little about Tonga, Fijji , The Marshal Islands, Pompey, Haitti, and many other forms of live rock.
They are ALL collected directly from wild reefs.

Ironically, this was based on my reading.

In Fenner and Calfo's Reef Invertebrates, P. 21,

"The correlative 'depletion' of habitat by wild rock collections, however, is a weak argument. Wild rock is collected in areas away from coral communities, and at depths where storm-tossed matter is both easy and safe to collect. "

I'm not trying to say that this is the 'final 'word' in the discussion of the impact of LR collection, but it does help dispel the widely held, yet rarely backed up, belief that LR is chipped off of living active reefs.

 

[GSchiemer]

If the Fiji rock were "chipped off" pieces from larger reefs, it would be evident. You would see the bare break points on the rock itself. It's obvious from examining most live rock that it was "free living."

Greg

 

[ChrisRD]

Greg beat me to it. I agree with that - it's obvious that most Pacific rock is not chipped/broken from a reef but rather collected from rubble zones.

The basic Fenner/Calfo argument seems to be that dumping a load of terrestrial rock on an Atlantic seabed and then harvesting it is no more environmentally friendly then say collecting debris rock from the rubble zone adjacent to a pacific reef... ...which makes sense to me.

At any rate, it seems to me that either method is likely having an insignificant environmental impact on coral reefs compared to the main issues such as increased terrestrial runoff pollution, increased siltation from land development/construction activites, commercial fishing operations, massive bleaching events, etc.

That said, I'm all for minimizing collection from wild reefs and think live rock alternatives, captive propped fish/corals, etc. are the future of the hobby.

 

[Anonymous]

Walt Smith sells a manufactured and aquacultured live rock out of Fiji. It's terrific stuff. It's lightweight, colorful and contains a lot of TROPICAL lifeforms. In addition, it pumps money into the local Fijian economy and reduces the collection of "wild" live rock. It's a win-win.

The only downside to the WS LR is the shapes are somewhat monotonous. Just saw a 2000 lb shipment of the stuff--donuts, donuts, donuts. Different sized donuts, but still donuts. It's a minor thing, but I wouldn't want to stock a tank solely with it.

 

[minibowmatt]

Many glaze has metal, some even have lead. But do any of you have a link that give elemental analysis of the clay? I assume it is mostly aluminum oxide.

Im working on this now with our ceramics instructor... I will post what i can find out..

 

[minibowmatt]

ok.. I got a hold of some books...
according to "clay and glazes for the potter"
"the molecular composition of clay is said to have the following formula:
Al2O3 * 2SiO2 * 2H2O"

Different clays are listed but North Carolina Kaolin (a more "pure" clay) is most common, and a good representation of the actual Earth's Crust.
SiO2-- 46.18%
Al2O3--38.38%
Fe2O3--.57%
MgO--.42%
K2O-- 0%
Na2O--1.22%
H20-- 13.28

what else do you need? There is a lot of information available to me but Im not a chemist!

 

[Anonymous]

That is a lot of silica sand. FWIW, I don't see anything obvously dangerous.

 

[Anonymous]

Suffice to say that I am definitely not a geologist or chemist, in-fact, my experience with rocks for the most part is to turn big ones into little ones lol. Anyway, wouldn't pumice be full of undesireable chemicals from the volcanic activity from which it came? I would think there would be alot of sulfur and such associated with pumice. I also have some experiences when I was a kid in the NW growing up around volcanoes that even softball sized chunks of pumice can float. Very porous stuff, which would be good, but not sure if the chemical composition would be reef friendly.

 

[FragMaster]

1st you dont glaze it
2nd the clay is inhert. COMPLETELY. I will have to find the website for a full analysis but I promise you nothing will leach out of it.
Lets not forget it gets fired to 1100 plus degrees so ALOT of the crap your worried about simply gets burnt away.
3rd I realy hate walt smith's live rock. Thats a hole new topic for me LOL!!!

The type of clay used is not average clay. Like I said I will find it and post it.

 

[gregx]

Dont be tight wods, buy the real thing & keep the trade going.

 

[FragMaster]

Its not about being a tight wad.
Its about finding a better way.

 

[FragMaster]

DAM! LOL!! You know what? The thread wasnt on seahorse.org it was on zoosrus the same link that minibowmatt posted LOL!!!! DOUGH!!!!!!
http://www.zoosrus.com/forums/showthrea ... genumber=1

Here ya go Duane:
Ok so it is Stone ware ( man made stone) NO nasties and any inpurities are flaxed out around 1200 degrees F. When fired.
It absorbs up to %5 moisture.
White clay, and the clay used for stone ware do not contain, iron and other metal oxide impurities.
Any silica in it will be turned to glass as it is fired well above the melting point of silica.

Found here:
http://www.pottery.co.in/stoneware.php

And here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneware

Now I just have to find a link to some one who sells it reasonably and your our official guniea pig!!! "squeal like a pig" ( deliverance LOL!!!)

 

[Anonymous]

If you call people tight wad, some may be very much offended. It does not affect me much, but we should keep these kind of name calling to a minimium.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree. Especially since the artificial rock being discussed is more expensive than the real thing. :?

 

[FragMaster]

Well yes and no... Depending on who you know, and where you buy it, it may actualy be CHEAPER than the real deal in the long run ( not counting time consumed ofcourse.)

 

[talofalava]

check out a product called vida rock. Its a ceramic rock with high porosity made in the USA by cerameco. Its real cool stuff

 

[bfessler]

I visited with the manufacturer of Vida Rock, a ceramic live rock substitute. This rock is manufactured in Salt Lake City Utah and is a very customizable product. While I was there they were making a custom background for a 150G Reef Tank. The background was constructed of 3 pieces and completely obscured the center overflow. It had many caves, arches and ledges. They had also sculpted several hundred freestanding pieces as well as plates and arches that can be stacked between the upright bases. Each piece is hand crafted and unique.

I spoke with Mark from CeramEco, the manufacturer, regarding the porosity of the porduct. He explained to me that the product gets its porosity from organic particles and fibers that are mixed into the clay. These particles completely burn off when fired leaving a clay that is porous all the way through its structure. when water touches the fired clay it is immediately sucked deep into the rock. If it will host the proper bacteria this rock should be able to fucntion similarly to live rock when properly seeded.

Mark allowed me to select a few sample pieces from the batch that was ready to be fired. They are being fired today and I should have them by saturday. I will include some pictures of the rock when I get them and also pics of the tank they will be going into. I am looking forward to seeing how corals accept them as well as how they look once colonized with coraline and other algae. Overall I was quite impressed with the product.

 

[Anonymous]

Woah. Deja vu.

 

[bfessler]

Here are some pics of Vida Rock pieces that I picked up yesterday. They are kind of stark right now as my tank is new and nothing is growing on the rocks yet. I will post some progress pics as they mature.

 

[Anonymous]

That actually looks nice and natural looking. If the price was right I would use it.