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Cracker2":2hg0r5z6 said:
i am both an employee in the industry, and a hobbyist, and eric is no representative of mine, nor of the hobby-i would venture that eric is representative of only himself, and YOUR labelling him as your representative does not make him such
vitz":1dwg1pj3 said:i am both an employee in the industry, and a hobbyist, and eric is no representative of mine, nor of the hobby-i would venture that eric is representative of only himself, and YOUR labelling him as your representative does not make him such
You are mistaken.
Some people in the hobby want to label him as a scientist.
The people trying to regulate the hobby out of business, will label him where the vast majority of his work is, in the hobby.
He will be set up as a representative of the hobby.
The scientific community will help to do that. They will also want to distance themselves.
Like I said, this can be used against the hobby, by the people that want to regulate the hobby out of business.
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Cracker2":oc9lbadl said:
Well, in all fairness, I don't have any reason to think that Reef Savers didn't actually have every intention to be a farm that would help save the hobby from collecting so many corals from the reefs. The size of their facility and the way they appear to have initially planned their business seems to absolutely support this. Now, if at some point, they faced unforeseen logistical problems, worked with the wrong people, and/or just faced some real-world practical difficulties that made that mission a little less attainable, I wouldn't be too hard of them for that. I actually have a few frags from them in my own tank. And though I'm just one person with one experience, they are some of the nicest, healthiest frags I've ever had.
I did not say that sihaya
I only pointed out that the hobby has promoted a save the reef campaign to help their image.
Mr. Koch runs a business that is not promoted as importing corals, but aquacultured corals and clams. A business a few years ago would not exist if it were not for the hobby's promotion of save the reef and aquaculture. The hobby created that market by promoting save the reef, buy aquacultured.
I only pointed out that the hobby has promoted a save the reef campaign to help their image.
Mr. Koch runs a business that is not promoted as importing corals, but aquacultured corals and clams. A business a few years ago would not exist if it were not for the hobby's promotion of save the reef and aquaculture. The hobby created that market by promoting save the reef, buy aquacultured.
sihaya":3p8aioco said:
I know for a fact, that every year businesses in this country have to justify their permits and go up against a strong lobby of highly organized and financed groups. Groups who's only purpose is to stop the trade in pet livestock.
Ever year those groups have the same argument.
How can you justify permitting someone to collect from the reef, when the reefs are in danger, and there is no real need (other than for pets) to do this.
It becomes harder to justify every year, because every year the government agencies claim the reefs are in more danger, and they need more money to protect it.
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tropic... is there any chance that you can disclose what your facility was promised as compensation for taking on the huge project? money? coral? or maybe super cool advertising? if we can get through this mystery, maybe some of us would go back to our regularly scheduled program.
also, who promised compensation to you?
also, who promised compensation to you?
sihaya":1v91lvk3 said:
When this post does close, and everyone is satisfied, please do us a favor and fade into the sunset. I hope to never have the displeasure of being subjected to your personal vendettas, self important ego, and incompetance on any reef site again. If you are going to be an adult, learn how to act like one.
Cracker2":l1g9vc5e said:
LOL You can't be serious. You take this whole affair and yourself waaaay too seriously. This story is less than a drop in the bucket compared to the problems facing reefs worldwide. BTW if you're so interested in saving naturals reefs why would you mind the hobby being regulated out of business? Conservation is the only thing that's going due any good to save what reefs are left.
sihaya":35s5gnz7 said:
Do not misunderstand two of the agencies you contacted about this either.
While they will be your best friend in helping you with this, I'm sure their agenda is taken to a much higher level and has a twist you might not see coming.
They will present this exactly like it is. They will present this, and rightly so, as a conflict of interest. Someone in the community, more strongly aligned with the pet industry, who smoked NOAA into giving them a permit for protected corals, to take to a facility that was more strongly aligned with the pet industry. Then it all fell apart.
They will come up with many reasons, using just the facts, to use this as an example of why all collection for the pet industry should stop.
Either way, the ball is in motion and nothing can stop it. They have the information, they are in the process of getting more information. Do not kid yourself, they are aligned with the Sanctuary on this also. They will not blame the Sanctuary. If they find what they are looking for, only the pet industry will take the blame.
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Cracker2":oagprf1i said:vitz":oagprf1i said:i am both an employee in the industry, and a hobbyist, and eric is no representative of mine, nor of the hobby-i would venture that eric is representative of only himself, and YOUR labelling him as your representative does not make him such
You are mistaken.
Some people in the hobby want to label him as a scientist.
The people trying to regulate the hobby out of business, will label him where the vast majority of his work is, in the hobby.
He will be set up as a representative of the hobby.
The scientific community will help to do that. They will also want to distance themselves.
Like I said, this can be used against the hobby, by the people that want to regulate the hobby out of business.
.
starting this thread to begin with, and posting in it, do far more to give 'ammunition' to 'those who would legislate this hobby out of business' than anything that borneman may have done by all of the evidence presented so far
you're a sensationalist, and you're doing far more damage to the hobby RIGHT NOW than anything ANY of the potential and alleged participants of this incident might have-i'm reminded of peta with every post you make here
regulating this industry will not happen-not by a long shot-and the reefs as a whole will most likely be gone by the time that even becomes a sliver of a potential reality
do not think that others are so foolish and broad paintbrush stroking as you that they will use one individual and an isolated incident not even really involving an act of the 'hobby' as a class, to use against the 'hobby' as a class
your 'hobby' is part of an industry-which involves economics, politics, international trade-do you really think it's that simple a thing to 'shut it down' ? what about europe, the far east, all of the countries who deal within this industry
give me a break, and please go back into your shell-all of your vitriol is at the best, highly misguided, and nothing but a lunatic's damaging raving, at the worst-like i said before-a (mindless and fruitless) witch hunt.
what more far serious issues have you ever 'cried' about here, or elsewhere, regarding reef conservation before this incident? what happened here is piddle, compared to the lesser evils of environmental damage that you, as a western culture consumer, take an active daily part in
:roll: :roll: :roll:
if you were so damn concerned the way you portray-you'd break down your tank, go help some islanders farm fish or corals, and give up your car
now go cry me a river
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